Louis DeMarco vs. Tony Fargo 2003 D.C.C.
- Thread starter Cowboy Dennis
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John Brumback
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Ever have Efren call you lucky?
No but I have been very lucky and have got alot of rolls when i needed them
John B.
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
...With the score as it is?
...With the score as it is?
You kidding? The 6 into the 8 would be a good shot if you were ahead or you only needed 3. You need FOUR. There are only 3 balls open. If you knocked those balls up the table on me I would do all I could to NOT make any of those hanging balls and instead try to clip off of one of those sticking out, and bring the cue ball back up table. Maintaining the situation whereby I could still win and you cant. Here is something to think about. If you dont knock off one of those hanging balls right now, it is entirely possible that you will never get another chance to do it. I could shoot with impugnity, maybe even off of the end rail, secure in the knowledge that you cant win next up. If you or anybody else cant see the reasoning in that, I give up.
Incidentally, you did forget the bank tournament at Chris's Billiards in Chicago that Tough Tony Brewer won.
If we are going to have a pissing contest, I will grant you as being the best banker in the world today. However, dey aint no humin kin outmove me in full or short rack. And dat's a fact. You wouldnt want to put it up to your homeboy Truman would you?
Dont feel bad, you should be happy to be the best banker on earth. But that other thing is all mine.:sorry
Master Beard
...With the score as it is?
You kidding? The 6 into the 8 would be a good shot if you were ahead or you only needed 3. You need FOUR. There are only 3 balls open. If you knocked those balls up the table on me I would do all I could to NOT make any of those hanging balls and instead try to clip off of one of those sticking out, and bring the cue ball back up table. Maintaining the situation whereby I could still win and you cant. Here is something to think about. If you dont knock off one of those hanging balls right now, it is entirely possible that you will never get another chance to do it. I could shoot with impugnity, maybe even off of the end rail, secure in the knowledge that you cant win next up. If you or anybody else cant see the reasoning in that, I give up.
Incidentally, you did forget the bank tournament at Chris's Billiards in Chicago that Tough Tony Brewer won.
If we are going to have a pissing contest, I will grant you as being the best banker in the world today. However, dey aint no humin kin outmove me in full or short rack. And dat's a fact. You wouldnt want to put it up to your homeboy Truman would you?
Dont feel bad, you should be happy to be the best banker on earth. But that other thing is all mine.:sorry
Master Beard
John Brumback
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You kidding? The 6 into the 8 would be a good shot if you were ahead or you only needed 3. You need FOUR. There are only 3 balls open. If you knocked those balls up the table on me I would do all I could to NOT make any of those hanging balls and instead try to clip off of one of those sticking out, and bring the cue ball back up table. Maintaining the situation whereby I could still win and you cant. Here is something to think about. If you dont knock off one of those hanging balls right now, it is entirely possible that you will never get another chance to do it. I could shoot with impugnity, maybe even off of the end rail, secure in the knowledge that you cant win next up. If you or anybody else cant see the reasoning in that, I give up.
Incidentally, you did forget the bank tournament at Chris's Billiards in Chicago that Tough Tony Brewer won.
If we are going to have a pissing contest, I will grant you as being the best banker in the world today. However, dey aint no humin kin outmove me in full or short rack. And dat's a fact. You wouldnt want to put it up to your homeboy Truman would you?
Dont feel bad, you should be happy to be the best banker on earth. But that other thing is all mine.:sorry
Master Beard
Sir Master Beard.A Big no.I did not forget that tourny.I did mention it.That was the first and only one that I haven't won.We are not going to have a pissing contest.I am not allowed to brag a little too? But thanks for giving me that title.I appreciate it alot,Sir Beard.
PS: LOL Truman aint never moved in his whole life.You know that,LOL.
I don't feel bad.I feel very good.Thank you again.My braggin days are over.
John B.
wincardona
Verified Member
Many options, but too little time.
Many options, but too little time.
Just happened to be in the neighborhood so I decided to drop by and visit with my bank pool friends. Now that i'm here I would like to offer my thoughts on situations like this one.
Playing 9 ball bank pool when trailing 3 balls to 1 ball your best scenario would be for all balls to be positioned where they would be bankable. Not only where they would be bankable but bankable in multiple pockets. The trailer can't afford to have pockets jammed like they are in this situation, and also the 6 and 8 balls aren't laying in a good position for the trailer (Demarco) as well. With the pockets jammed it lends to a grindiing game..something Demarco can't afford to play. But as we all know, changing the furniture around can be difficult, especially if there is little time to do it. Understanding this our objective should be to move the furniture at the earliest..best time possible, and that's what you have here. What makes this a great time to start moving furniture is the spotted ball Here you have the perfect situation to start your plan to obtain the best scenario for this situation, in terms of the score. By pocketing the ball that the Master Beard suggest you will clear the pocket, and put another ball in play, and most importantly the ball you pocket will go in a safe position behind the spotted ball. Now you have just added the main ingredient into the recipe for success. Pressure on your opponent.
We can go back and forth about what shot is the better shot for certain situations, but one thing that can't be denied, and that is applying pressure will always be an ally for the player who needs it applied.
Dr. Bill
Many options, but too little time.
Just happened to be in the neighborhood so I decided to drop by and visit with my bank pool friends. Now that i'm here I would like to offer my thoughts on situations like this one.
Playing 9 ball bank pool when trailing 3 balls to 1 ball your best scenario would be for all balls to be positioned where they would be bankable. Not only where they would be bankable but bankable in multiple pockets. The trailer can't afford to have pockets jammed like they are in this situation, and also the 6 and 8 balls aren't laying in a good position for the trailer (Demarco) as well. With the pockets jammed it lends to a grindiing game..something Demarco can't afford to play. But as we all know, changing the furniture around can be difficult, especially if there is little time to do it. Understanding this our objective should be to move the furniture at the earliest..best time possible, and that's what you have here.
What makes this a great time to start moving furniture is the spotted ball Here you have the perfect situation to start your plan to obtain the best scenario for this situation, in terms of the score. By pocketing the ball that the Master Beard suggest you will clear the pocket, and put another ball in play, and most importantly the ball you pocket will go in a safe position behind the spotted ball. Now you have just added the main ingredient into the recipe for success. Pressure on your opponent. We can go back and forth about what shot is the better shot for certain situations, but one thing that can't be denied, and that is applying pressure will always be an ally for the player who needs it applied.
Dr. Bill
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fred bentivegna
Verified Member
I've said it before....
I've said it before....
...and I will say it again. Great minds think alike.
Beard
I've said it before....
Just happened to be in the neighborhood so I decided to drop by and visit with my bank pool friends. Now that i'm here I would like to offer my thoughts on situations like this one.
Playing 9 ball bank pool when trailing 3 balls to 1 ball your best scenario would be for all balls to be positioned where they would be bankable. Not only where they would be bankable but bankable in multiple pockets. The trailer can't afford to have pockets jammed like they are in this situation, and also the 6 and 8 balls aren't laying in a good position for the trailer (Demarco) as well. With the pockets jammed it lends to a grindiing game..something Demarco can't afford to play. But as we all know, changing the furniture around can be difficult, especially if there is little time to do it. Understanding this our objective should be to move the furniture at the earliest..best time possible, and that's what you have here.
We can go back and forth about what shot is the better shot for certain situations, but one thing that can't be denied, and that is applying pressure will always be an ally for the player who needs it applied.
Dr. Bill
...and I will say it again. Great minds think alike.
Beard
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Glad you appreciated it...
Glad you appreciated it...
...because you can check thru 6 years of me posting on this site, I probably havent ever before said anybody was the best in the world (beside myself) at anything. Mainly because the call was always too close before.
Being the world's best you should be able to brag all you want. I surely wont complain. (There are some on here who do take offense tho, for whatever reason.)
Beard
Glad you appreciated it...
...because you can check thru 6 years of me posting on this site, I probably havent ever before said anybody was the best in the world (beside myself) at anything. Mainly because the call was always too close before.
Being the world's best you should be able to brag all you want. I surely wont complain. (There are some on here who do take offense tho, for whatever reason.)
Beard
John Brumback
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Cool! Thanks ole Bearded one.John B.
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
I don't believe I've given my take on this layout so now I will.
As much as I don't want to move the 6 & 8 I would shoot them away leaving the cueball on the headrail. My reasons are as follows: It's very easy to stop the cueball there and leave my opponent long. All bank players know that sometimes to get a shot you have to give up a shot, just make sure you leave a long & difficult shot with your opponent shooting off the headrail. I'll just have to take whatever comes next.
Next reason is this: The 4 ball is deep in the hole so you will be hitting it (if coming off the siderail) thin leaving open the very real possibility of scratching 3 rails or even hitting the 6 or 8 and scratching off them or giving up an easy shot on them.
You are playing a guy (Fargo) who makes good moves on every shot, maybe the best mover I've yet seen on an AccuStat DVD, a moving game will probably hurt you more than him. Let him shoot off the headrail at balls 8 or 9 feet away, you might just come up with a shot. If not then you are no worse off than you are now and you at least controlled the game and limited his responses and made them tough. If he beats you shooting off the headrail then it wasn't your game to win anyway, that's how I look at it.
That's my take on the shot.
DeMarco speared the 3 ball straight-back.
You can see from where he left himself the 4 is a little deep in the hole but I thought that could be seen in the other pics as well.
Dennis
As much as I don't want to move the 6 & 8 I would shoot them away leaving the cueball on the headrail. My reasons are as follows: It's very easy to stop the cueball there and leave my opponent long. All bank players know that sometimes to get a shot you have to give up a shot, just make sure you leave a long & difficult shot with your opponent shooting off the headrail. I'll just have to take whatever comes next.
Next reason is this: The 4 ball is deep in the hole so you will be hitting it (if coming off the siderail) thin leaving open the very real possibility of scratching 3 rails or even hitting the 6 or 8 and scratching off them or giving up an easy shot on them.
You are playing a guy (Fargo) who makes good moves on every shot, maybe the best mover I've yet seen on an AccuStat DVD, a moving game will probably hurt you more than him. Let him shoot off the headrail at balls 8 or 9 feet away, you might just come up with a shot. If not then you are no worse off than you are now and you at least controlled the game and limited his responses and made them tough. If he beats you shooting off the headrail then it wasn't your game to win anyway, that's how I look at it.
That's my take on the shot.
DeMarco speared the 3 ball straight-back
.You can see from where he left himself the 4 is a little deep in the hole but I thought that could be seen in the other pics as well.
Dennis
wincardona
Verified Member
I don't believe I've given my take on this layout so now I will.
As much as I don't want to move the 6 & 8 I would shoot them away leaving the cueball on the headrail. My reasons are as follows: It's very easy to stop the cueball there and leave my opponent long. All bank players know that sometimes to get a shot you have to give up a shot, just make sure you leave a long & difficult shot with your opponent shooting off the headrail. I'll just have to take whatever comes next.
Next reason is this: The 4 ball is deep in the hole so you will be hitting it (if coming off the siderail) thin leaving open the very real possibility of scratching 3 rails or even hitting the 6 or 8 and scratching off them or giving up an easy shot on them.
You are playing a guy (Fargo) who makes good moves on every shot, maybe the best mover I've yet seen on an AccuStat DVD, a moving game will probably hurt you more than him. Let him shoot off the headrail at balls 8 or 9 feet away, you might just come up with a shot. If not then you are no worse off than you are now and you at least controlled the game and limited his responses and made them tough. If he beats you shooting off the headrail then it wasn't your game to win anyway, that's how I look at it.
That's my take on the shot.
DeMarco speared the 3 ball straight-back
View attachment 5545
You can see from where he left himself the 4 is a little deep in the hole but I thought that could be seen in the other pics as well.
View attachment 5546
Dennis
Just happened to notice Cowboy's post on the shot, and he is correct when he say's that the angle and deepness of the ball hanging will present problems for the option that Fred suggested, and I agreed with. Can't argue that point, as much as I would like. But if the angle was a better one, and the hanging ball allowed you to play the shot comfortably I would suggest the same shot that Fred and I liked. I think that I brought up quite a few good points when evaluating situations like this one and hopefully some of you guys made sense of what I shared.
Brumback's choice with shooting the 6 and 8 balls away is also a good option, considering how the balls are positioned. I like his option best after reevaluating the situation, thanks to Cowboy. Which goes to prove that my grandfather knew what he was talking about when he told me that "two heads are better than one head, even if one head is a cabbage head"
Dr. Bill
lll
Verified Member
Does that help?
Dennis
ill just bring you back to these posts.......
i do understand the other options are better pecentage plays...
do i get a cookie????.........:lol
onepockethacker
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Ok i wouldnt bank the 3 ball where Louis did because it looks like he had to shorten it up with some inside and draw, so he probably had to hit it hard enough that if he missed it could have came back down the table some. What is wrong with taking a free bank on the 3 ball to the other pocket? you can hit it pocket speed and leave nothing if you miss. If you make it now you are down 3 to 2 and now you can move.
wincardona
Verified Member
There were many not so bad options available, banking the 3 ball to either pocket was two of them. I just don't like playing a slow game when i'm behind, particularly with the score as it is. Banking the 3 ball your way really slows the game down. You figure to hang it as many times as you make it, and that's certainly no good. If I were your opponent I would want you to bank the 3 ball, figuring I can manage my way to a win. I believe you have to force the action, either by positioning balls, or trying to put your opponent in a need to perform situation. Brumback's shot put's his opponent in a need to perform situation, most likely. If i'm a good player and choose to bank the 3 ball i'm banking it like DeMarco did. Good players figure to hit the bank decent, and even if missed the ball figures to stay at the head end of the table. Plus your make percentage probably doubles.
It turned out that the shot I agreed with Freddie on is probably one of the weak options, considering how deep in the pocket the 5 ball is positioned. Plus the angle isn't the best, especially from the distance the cue ball must travel before contact
Once you eliminate that option you either have to play Brumback's shot, or bank the 3 ball.Dr. Bill
onepockethacker
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There were many not so bad options available, banking the 3 ball to either pocket was two of them. I just don't like playing a slow game when i'm behind, particularly with the score as it is. Banking the 3 ball your way really slows the game down. You figure to hang it as many times as you make it, and that's certainly no good. If I were your opponent I would want you to bank the 3 ball, figuring I can manage my way to a win. I believe you have to force the action, either by positioning balls, or trying to put your opponent in a need to perform situation. Brumback's shot put's his opponent in a need to perform situation, most likely. If i'm a good player and choose to bank the 3 ball i'm banking it like DeMarco did. Good players figure to hit the bank decent, and even if missed the ball figures to stay at the head end of the table. Plus your make percentage probably doubles.
It turned out that the shot I agreed with Freddie on is probably one of the weak options, considering how deep in the pocket the 5 ball is positioned. Plus the angle isn't the best, especially from the distance the cue ball must travel before contact
Dr. Bill
The only time i have played bank pool in my life was 1999 Derby City tournament. I lost my first match brought back in and got 30th. I am not an expert on the game so i have no problem listening to these suggestions and learning. I find it interesting that Freddy said there was only one shot you should play in this situation..period. Meanwhile the majority of the people think his idea was wrong including yourself now.
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
View attachment 5548
ill just bring you back to these posts.......
i do understand the other options are better pecentage plays...
do i get a cookie????.........:lol
You don't get a cookie for picking the wrong shot. He hit that ball so hard that if he had missed it a little wide it would've gone 6 rails back to the pocket he was shooting from
.It's much like one-pocket, making the ball erases all sins but you ain't livin' long like that.
Dennis
lll
Verified Member
You don't get a cookie for picking the wrong shot. He hit that ball so hard that if he had missed it a little wide it would've gone 6 rails back to the pocket he was shooting from
It's much like one-pocket, making the ball erases all sins but you ain't livin' long like that.
Dennis
gosh...gee...Mr. Dennis
you are one tough cookie giver outer.....:lol.....:heh
John Brumback
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The reason I would shoot my shot is this.PRESSURE.That's what I like to apply.
And he's going to have plenty when he gets to the table.Like Cowboy said,sometimes you have to give up a shot to get a shot.I do this all the time.
(But here I'm not even leaving a shot)
I'm for sure going to stick the cball froze on the rail and he's going to have to come up with some kind of a great shot to get out of the trap I just put him in.When I shoot those two balls down and out into the table he's going to have a very hard time not leaving me a shot of some kind.See there's going to be two balls in play now and I will have something to shoot at when it comes my turn.I would not mess with the pink ball,to many bad things can happen with that.One bad thing is you have just opened up a pocket and if you don't lay the cball down perfect you might have just sold out a free shot.
(I don't give up free shots very often) You might have what looks like a shot but it aint going to be free.(one of my secrets right here)
The 3ball..you would have to hold a gun on me for me to shoot that back under me.That's got to be one of the hardest bank shots there is,IMO.I can miss that shot by a foot or worse.(firing it makes the pocket play bigger,rolling it, the pockets stays small)If i had to shoot the 3,I'm firing at it straight back like Louis did.But I don't like the shot he chose.He could lose but not win.That's my way of thinking for what it's worth.John B.
And he's going to have plenty when he gets to the table.Like Cowboy said,sometimes you have to give up a shot to get a shot.I do this all the time.
(But here I'm not even leaving a shot)
I'm for sure going to stick the cball froze on the rail and he's going to have to come up with some kind of a great shot to get out of the trap I just put him in.When I shoot those two balls down and out into the table he's going to have a very hard time not leaving me a shot of some kind.See there's going to be two balls in play now and I will have something to shoot at when it comes my turn.I would not mess with the pink ball,to many bad things can happen with that.One bad thing is you have just opened up a pocket and if you don't lay the cball down perfect you might have just sold out a free shot.
(I don't give up free shots very often) You might have what looks like a shot but it aint going to be free.(one of my secrets right here
)The 3ball..you would have to hold a gun on me for me to shoot that back under me.That's got to be one of the hardest bank shots there is,IMO.I can miss that shot by a foot or worse.(firing it makes the pocket play bigger,rolling it, the pockets stays small)If i had to shoot the 3,I'm firing at it straight back like Louis did.But I don't like the shot he chose.He could lose but not win.That's my way of thinking for what it's worth.John B.
John Brumback
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There were many not so bad options available, banking the 3 ball to either pocket was two of them. I just don't like playing a slow game when i'm behind, particularly with the score as it is. Banking the 3 ball your way really slows the game down. You figure to hang it as many times as you make it, and that's certainly no good. If I were your opponent I would want you to bank the 3 ball, figuring I can manage my way to a win. I believe you have to force the action, either by positioning balls, or trying to put your opponent in a need to perform situation. Brumback's shot put's his opponent in a need to perform situation, most likely. If i'm a good player and choose to bank the 3 ball i'm banking it like DeMarco did. Good players figure to hit the bank decent, and even if missed the ball figures to stay at the head end of the table. Plus your make percentage probably doubles.
It turned out that the shot I agreed with Freddie on is probably one of the weak options, considering how deep in the pocket the 5 ball is positioned. Plus the angle isn't the best, especially from the distance the cue ball must travel before contact
Dr. Bill
Dr. Billy I.
I know you say your not a bank pool player but I still like hearing
your advice and thinking.Mainly because your so good at figuring the % of the unforseen outcomes.Thanks for coming over here and giving us your thoughts.I appreciate it and I know everyone else does too.John B.
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
So what?
So what?
What does the majority of ordinary chess players want to have to do with trying to outmove the old Bobby Fischer? I gave you the right shot. I will take that to my grave. If I couldnt go rail first off of the ball and return 3 or 4 rails up the table I would french kiss SJD. Maybe spearing in a 9 foot straight back like DeMarco did was easier.
One other consideration is that even if somehow you scratch, (very unlikely), you would spot up the ball you made, plus the one that you owe. 3 balls on the spot, no shot for your opponent. There are still FIVE makeable balls on the table! Now you are back to where you can still WIN on one shot, just like your opponent.
I released one of the most important pool axioms you can ever learn. IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, manipulate your shot choice to where you can win on one shot AND YOUR OPPONENT CAN'T. That is stronger than acid. Not only my heart, but every turned out player's heart, gets big when we are shooting at a shot -- however difficult -- that can get us the win, but won't cost us the game!
Real pressure comes from looking around the table and visualizing your oppo winning the game if you miss.
One of the drawbacks in going over shot selection in bank pool ON THIS FORUM, is that the shots are looked upon mostly from a one pocket players perspective. That is: In one pocket you can lock the game up by taking balls out of play, putting them up table and against the rails and next to each other, etc. But you are only defending against ONE pocket. So a four or five ball lead in one pocket with balls in the aforementioned positions is a solid advantage.
But in bank pool you are defending against SIX pockets. No matter what the score, especially in short rack, if the balls are not hanging in the pocket and enough of them are out there for someone to be able to win with, whoever has the lead is always at risk. Say you are losing 4 to 0 but there are five balls in play, you dont have to bank five and out. How about 2 or 3, then a safe, and then 2 or 3 and out? It doesnt matter where the balls are scattered around the table, as long as they aint hanging, they can be banked.
Beard
There it is. Take it or leave it. Dont matter to me. I am certainly not the one trying to learn the game.
So what?
What does the majority of ordinary chess players want to have to do with trying to outmove the old Bobby Fischer? I gave you the right shot. I will take that to my grave. If I couldnt go rail first off of the ball and return 3 or 4 rails up the table I would french kiss SJD. Maybe spearing in a 9 foot straight back like DeMarco did was easier.
One other consideration is that even if somehow you scratch, (very unlikely), you would spot up the ball you made, plus the one that you owe. 3 balls on the spot, no shot for your opponent. There are still FIVE makeable balls on the table! Now you are back to where you can still WIN on one shot, just like your opponent.
I released one of the most important pool axioms you can ever learn. IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, manipulate your shot choice to where you can win on one shot AND YOUR OPPONENT CAN'T. That is stronger than acid. Not only my heart, but every turned out player's heart, gets big when we are shooting at a shot -- however difficult -- that can get us the win, but won't cost us the game!
Real pressure comes from looking around the table and visualizing your oppo winning the game if you miss.
One of the drawbacks in going over shot selection in bank pool ON THIS FORUM, is that the shots are looked upon mostly from a one pocket players perspective. That is: In one pocket you can lock the game up by taking balls out of play, putting them up table and against the rails and next to each other, etc. But you are only defending against ONE pocket. So a four or five ball lead in one pocket with balls in the aforementioned positions is a solid advantage.
But in bank pool you are defending against SIX pockets. No matter what the score, especially in short rack, if the balls are not hanging in the pocket and enough of them are out there for someone to be able to win with, whoever has the lead is always at risk. Say you are losing 4 to 0 but there are five balls in play, you dont have to bank five and out. How about 2 or 3, then a safe, and then 2 or 3 and out? It doesnt matter where the balls are scattered around the table, as long as they aint hanging, they can be banked.
Beard
There it is. Take it or leave it. Dont matter to me. I am certainly not the one trying to learn the game.
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fred bentivegna
Verified Member
The closest....
The closest....
...the closest Dr Bill got to re knowing about bank pool was when he first agreed with my shot choice. :lol However, that period of clarity only lasted about 20 minutes and then he reverted to his regular self.:frus
Beard
The closest....
...the closest Dr Bill got to re knowing about bank pool was when he first agreed with my shot choice. :lol However, that period of clarity only lasted about 20 minutes and then he reverted to his regular self.:frus
Beard