Fusco vs Varner 1991 L.O.P.

wincardona said:

Hackers shot is a very interesting one, yes there is a little gamble with shooting it but if you feel you can execute it then shooting it isn't all that bad. Is it the right shot? For him it probably is, for Freddie or a player who doesn't like it , it's probably not. Playing passively in this situation has it's problems too, you may not sell out a shot immediately but you just may not like your next shot. With the Hackers shot you have a chance to pocket the ball and have the first GOOD move to level the playing field, something you give up by playing safe. What would I do? I guess it depends on how well i'm playing, if i'm striking balls well I'll play the Hackers shot, if not i'll probably duck. But for those who are interested imo it's not a black and white decision. Personally I don't like playing safe from this position, it will probably only get worse for you, so maybe it's time to gamble.

How did I do Dennis?

Dr. Bill

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wincardona said:

Hackers shot is a very interesting one, yes there is a little gamble with shooting it but if you feel you can execute it then shooting it isn't all that bad. Is it the right shot? For him it probably is, for Freddie or a player who doesn't like it , it's probably not. Playing passively in this situation has it's problems too, you may not sell out a shot immediately but you just may not like your next shot. With the Hackers shot you have a chance to pocket the ball and have the first GOOD move to level the playing field, something you give up by playing safe. What would I do? I guess it depends on how well i'm playing, if i'm striking balls well I'll play the Hackers shot, if not i'll probably duck. But for those who are interested imo it's not a black and white decision. Personally I don't like playing safe from this position, it will probably only get worse for you, so maybe it's time to gamble.

How did I do Dennis?

Dr. Bill

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wincardona said:

One pocket is a game of decision making, you usually have more than one option when at the table moving balls. With this understanding you have to familiarize yourself with the percentages of shooting all kinds of shots and incorporate that into your decision making. Like I have said many times in the past "the right shot for one, may not be the right shot for another" That's part of the reason why one pocket is such an intriguing game, figuring out what shots suits our style, developing them and incorporating them into our game. Understanding this sorta makes... 'the right shot'...just another option, but a good one. Once we have a good understanding of the percentages of succeeding, we then can apply them to our decision making and that's what's referred to as "risk against return" Now all of a sudden we're playing a different brand of one pocket, we're playing ..."our game"...:heh which adds to our confidence as a player.

There's something else that needs to be said about shooting shots that are right for one but not right for every one, and that is ....it sends a message to both your opponent and yourself... The message it sends to your opponent is,....you need to put more thought into what your doing to beat me...The message it sends to yourself is...I have the ability and skills to control my destiny...

Taking control of situations will always play a major role in winning, it may not guarantee the win but it will increase your win percentage. With this understanding there's no mystery why understanding percentages is a key to our decision making on when to try to take control.

Now we can look at the Hackers shot with a fresh perspective.


Billy I.

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SJDinPHX said:

Tap, Tap, Tap...Very well said Dr. Bill...Are you sure you're not a phsycology major, posing as a pool player ?..

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wincardona said:

Thanks Dick, I have always been a proponent on aggressive playing, that's why I feel the best players are players like Reyes, Allen, and Frost. Though I have only seen and played against you once ...in a ring game playing one pocket....you have that style too. That's probably the reason you were so difficult to beat, and only a few could beat you, but not in SanJose.
The ring game we played in was with Cecil, Richie Florence, and you and me. Remember? You were well past your prime at that time, I believ I was around 45 or 48 years old which would put you around 70 to 73

Hope your feeling better, get in stroke I think you have a little left.

Dr. Bill

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wincardona said:

Thanks Dick, I have always been a proponent on aggressive playing, that's why I feel the best players are players like Reyes, Allen, and Frost. Though I have only seen and played against you once ...in a ring game playing one pocket....you have that style too. That's probably the reason you were so difficult to beat, and only a few could beat you, but not in SanJose.
The ring game we played in was with Cecil, Richie Florence, and you and me. Remember? You were well past your prime at that time, I believ I was around 45 or 48 years old which would put you around 70 to 73

Hope your feeling better, get in stroke I think you have a little left.

Dr. Bill

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NH Steve said:

A ring one pocket game -- I want to hear more about how you played that.

Every man for himself and your pocket is always the opposite corner from whoever shot last is what I would assume. The only other stipulation I can think of (to avoid collusion -- not that we have to worry about that with poolplayers, lol) is some way to quickly random draw whoever shoots "next" so there is no possibility of collusion because you would never know who was going to follow you..... coming soon, to a DCC near you

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androd said:

This would make you somewhere in you early 50's, if you're 25 years younger than the Duck. Quit trying to exploit us senior players.:lol
Rod.

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wincardona said:

Thanks Dick, I have always been a proponent on aggressive playing, that's why I feel the best players are players like Reyes, Allen, and Frost. Though I have only seen and played against you once ...in a ring game playing one pocket....you have that style too. That's probably the reason you were so difficult to beat, and only a few could beat you, but not in SanJose.
***The ring game we played in was with Cecil, Richie Florence, and you and me. Remember? You were well past your prime at that time, I believ I was around 45 or 48 years old which would put you around 70 to 73<--Bad math Billy, (rare for you) Aren't I only about 8 yrs. your senior ?...We first met in Ft.Worth, around '70, remember ?

Hope your feeling better, get in stroke I think you have a little left.

Dr. Bill

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NH Steve said:

A ring one pocket game -- I want to hear more about how you played that.

Every man for himself and your pocket is always the opposite corner from whoever shot last is what I would assume. The only other stipulation I can think of (to avoid collusion -- not that we have to worry about that with poolplayers, lol) is some way to quickly random draw whoever shoots "next" so there is no possibility of collusion because you would never know who was going to follow you..... coming soon, to a DCC near you

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SJDinPHX said:

***Completely out of the memory bank, along with a ton of other matches...:frus (where was it ?)

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SJDinPHX said:

***Completely out of the memory bank, along with a ton of other matches...:frus (where was it ?)

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onepockethacker said:

If your going to pick some peoples brains around here about one pocket, pick Billy's, Freddies, SJD, Artie when he is around, The Ghost, Androd. These people have a great understanding of one pocket.

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One Pocket Ghost said:

PS, And hacker you can’t knock my analysis, because don’t forget you posted this yesterday...

Originally Posted by onepockethacker
If your going to pick some peoples brains around here about one pocket, pick Billy's, "Freudddis", SJD, and Artie when he is around, The "Gloats"and Androd...These people have a great understanding of one pocket.

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Ghrast,

The Hacker makes a lot of "typo's" (he even misspelled both your name's) He could NOT possibly have meant YOU and Fred.. !!.:sorry

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SJDinPHX said:

One Pocket Ghost said:

PS, And hacker you can’t knock my analysis, because don’t forget you posted this yesterday... >>>




Ghrast,

The Hacker makes a lot of "typo's" (he even misspelled your name) He could NOT possibly have meant YOU !!.:sorry

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Actually i was playing that game where you pick out who doesnt belong. Ghost wasnt smart enough to figure out it was him. Besides Ghosty it doesnt matter who tries to give you a little credit that you may know a little something about one pocket, because everytime you open your mouth you show your ass LMFAO
P.S. In closing boys and girls if you want to win the game shoot my choice and if you want to prolong the agony because your playing winner pays the time and you want to run up the pool time as your getting your nuts shot in shoot Ghostys shot

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One Pocket Ghost said:

First off, I'm often not sure who other posters are referring to when they post shot choice recommendations - for themselves shooting?, the players in the dvd?, or?....and also people are often saying, like the hacker has said recently - "well that shot might be right for you, but I can make this other harder shot'...

So I just want to say once and for all, just speaking for myself - that when I recommend a shot choice it's not based on me shooting it, or the particular players in the dvd and their particular skill sets....I base my shot recommendations that I give in these threads as if I was coaching an all-around solid one pocket player, capable of all shots, that plays at a high shortstop level, just under pro-level, and who's playing against his equal...for an example of the type of player I mean, I'll say Richie Richeson...

Ok, that said, I'll give some of my analysis of this situation...first of all, get serious hacker - you talk like you're the only one to shoot shots like this bank of yours and other challenging shots - please - myself and all good one pocket players that I know, have shot them a zillion times...but each one has to be intelligently (not rashly or ego-fueled) judged by the good old risk reward factor...all that said...

Your shot's not a terrible choice, but I would say the risk reward factor is not quite high enough..ie...you can only get one ball, by making the bank...your only other gain, if you make the bank, is, as you said - gaining the next move........and the down side of shooting it being the very real possibility of a kiss, or since you're shooting it with a little pace on it, having it rattle in and out of the pocket points and go towards the opponents pocket, or having it end up where he can 1 or 2 rail it at his pocket on his next shot.......but, to take the subject of risk/reward a little further here...let's make a slight change in the layout, and let's say that the 6ball was just off of Fusco's long rail, and a diamond up from his pocket, where I would have it for a cross-corner next if I make the straight back bank - and, considering that the clustered balls are positioned such as to be very runnable to my pocket....then, the reward factor would rise up enough to make the risk of shooting your bank worth taking - and I would recommend shooting it...

As for Steve's safety, with the balls laying as they are, that many posters like....I like it - with one revision....you need to shoot it a little harder - you don't want it stopping where Steve depicted - cuz it leaves your opponent good options - with his next shot he will either cut the cluster thinly, wanting to rearrange the balls slightly, because they at present favor your pocket, sending you up-table, or he will kick softly one rail at the ball that is up-table on your side of the table.......so you'd want to instead shoot Steve's safety a little harder, and have the cueball end up 1/4 diamond to the left of Fusco's pocket - this is the place for the cueball where your opponent has the least chance of adjusting the table layout to his favor more than it already is, or of putting you in a very bad spot.

- Ghost

PS, And hacker you can’t knock my analysis, because don’t forget you posted this yesterday...:heh >>>

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wincardona said:

Ghost, you make a lot of valid points with your reasons for shooting the bank if the reward was apparent, as moving the 6 ball. If the reward was instant after making the bank then we wouldn't be having this debate, would we? Then you say that Richie Richeson plays a high short stop level:sorry He plays at a professional level. Then you say that the reward factor isn't high enough to shoot this shot iyo. Well once again that depends on the shooter and how well he hits this particular shot, doesn't it? Then you say the shot carries a good possibility of a kiss, well we have to assume that the player that shoots this shot is educated enough to avoid the kiss or he shouldn't be shooting it. So lets assume that there is no kiss would you feel differently about the option? Lets assume that the shooter can hit this shot reasonably well, consistently, would you then feel differently about the option? If so then is it possible that the Hacker fits the description of a player that should shoot this shot? If I could hit balls as well as I once did and there is no kiss with the shot I wouldn't hesitate in shooting it in situations like this one.

I respect your opinion on the moving part of the game, but not as much on the offensive part of the game simply because you're not an offensive player. I look at this as an owner of a NFL football team would, in hiring his coaches to build his team. I wouldn't hire you to be my offensive coach, but I would strongly consider you to be my defensive coordinator. Now you might say that you don't have to be a great ball striker, or an excellent player to be able to teach or coach offensive pool. I agree and disagree, I feel that players that play at a higher level in terms of execution have a much better understanding of the percentages of just about all shots, and certainly a better understanding of players that never reached that level. Furthermore I believe that smart educated players have a great understanding of their skills and ability to succeed, that's the reason their very difficult to beat. With that said I believe that you have a limited understanding of playing offensive pool because your not a top ball striker, so consequently you're not geared to play an offensive style. That in no way means that you're not a good player with a lot of knowledge which I think you are, but I wouldn't think that Richie Richeson could benefit from you coaching him in a offensive situation. Top ball strikers steal games, that's what they do and they don't just steal games by making a tough shot to sustain a run, they also steal games by making a tough shot to level the playing field, or as they say in football to gain field position.


Billy I.

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onepockethacker said:

Great post billy. Right on the money.

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Still stroking Billy, I see......

One Pocket Ghost said:

a high shortstop level, just under pro-level, and who's playing against his equal...for an example of the type of player I mean, I'll say Richie Richeson...


- Ghost

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onepockethacker said:

He thinks Richie Richeson is a shortstop

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One Pocket Ghost said:

Still stroking Billy, I see......




I'll successfully refute more of Billy and hacker's posts later when I have more time...for now, I'll just refute my labeling of Richie-Rich's speed...I said >>>




...naturally the word-hacker misquotes me and leaves out the word high before shortstop, to try and make an invalid point... >>>





I know exactly how Richie plays, I've played him several times - including when he won the last Kalamazoo U.S. OPEN one pocket tournament where Adam Smith came in second, and I came in 3rd place....By just below pro level, I just MEAN he's been a slight underdog over the years vs. players like Parica, Shannon, Cliff, etc.

- GHST

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