Your take on Cecil Tugwell?

demonrho · Oct 25, 2008

Just curious. Those of you who saw him play back in the day - how do you rate him? At the last Hollywood Jack Memeorial One Pocket Tournament in LA, I saw his bicycle (with attached full length pool cue) parked outside the entrance to Hollywood Billiards. I couldn't believe at his age he bicycled all the way from Hardtimes in Bellflower - a long and convoluted route through areas just as dangerous as Baghdad. But sure enough - there he was inside waiting for his match.

wincardona · Oct 25, 2008

demonrho said:
Just curious. Those of you who saw him play back in the day - how do you rate him? At the last Hollywood Jack Memeorial One Pocket Tournament in LA, I saw his bicycle (with attached full length pool cue) parked outside the entrance to Hollywood Billiards. I couldn't believe at his age he bicycled all the way from Hardtimes in Bellflower - a long and convoluted route through areas just as dangerous as Baghdad. But sure enough - there he was inside waiting for his match.

I played Cecil 9 ball in the 70's he played excellent at that time.He has always had an excellent feel of the game of one pocket,I would go as far as saying ( imo) that he may have been the best black onepocket player ever.After he hurt his hand and had to play with his left duke he was still a very very good player. Can you imagine how affective he would of been if he hadn't hurt his hand? Incidentally,he has a ton of heart.

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 25, 2008

wincardona said:
I played Cecil 9 ball in the 70's he played excellent at that time.He has always had an excellent feel of the game of one pocket,I would go as far as saying ( imo) that he may have been the best black onepocket player ever.After he hurt his hand and had to play with his left duke he was still a very very good player. Can you imagine how affective he would of been if he hadn't hurt his hand? Incidentally,he has a ton of heart.

Cecil is a very talanted athlet and I am very friendly. With him . When we use to hustle with Ceciel Harold and me. I gave him a nick name TEA BONE and he liked it. He played good banks too. But he was a very wild and cocky player. I loved playing against him because the style he played was perfect for me. The best way to describe Ceciel is nothing but heart. He did not lack in heart. And he would stand up against anybody. The reason I gave him the nick name tea bone is because he loved to eat teabone staks. But Harold and Ceciel hustled all over and not to meny people can sat the beat Ceciel Tugwell. I hope he is in good health. And keep enjoying your life.

lll · Oct 25, 2008

wincardona, you think cecil was better than bugs as the best black one pocket player?

demonrho · Oct 26, 2008

Billy and Artie:
Do you think Cecil deserves One Pocket Hall of Fame consideration? If so, it would be nice to honor him while he is still with us.

Artie Bodendorfer said:
Cecil is a very talanted athlet and I am very friendly. With him . When we use to hustle with Ceciel Harold and me. I gave him a nick name TEA BONE and he liked it. He played good banks too. But he was a very wild and cocky player. I loved playing against him because the style he played was perfect for me. The best way to describe Ceciel is nothing but heart. He did not lack in heart. And he would stand up against anybody. The reason I gave him the nick name tea bone is because he loved to eat teabone staks. But Harold and Ceciel hustled all over and not to meny people can sat the beat Ceciel Tugwell. I hope he is in good health. And keep enjoying your life.

lll · Oct 26, 2008

demonrho said:
Billy and Artie:
Do you think Cecil deserves One Pocket Hall of Fame consideration? If so, it would be nice to honor him while he is still with us.

agree with demonfho completely. only those of you who are in the hall of fame realy know how much it means to be respected by your peers as among the best at what you do and what a great honor to receive it.also i am sure to receive the honor while still alive so you can cherish it means even more.

fred bentivegna · Oct 26, 2008

Cecil the Serpent

Cecil the Serpent

We used to call him "Serps", which was short for Cecil The Serpent (from a kiddie TV show). In the early 70s he and I used to play a couple times a week at the Ye Billiard Den in Hollywood. He was right-handed then. He was a real good player with a real good future before his accident. He was a psycho to play with, however, he might get violent if he lost, although he and I always had fun, and there was never any problems between us. I could never understand why he would never play right-handed again after he healed. There was no reason that I knew of, other than psychological, for him not to use his right hand. Like I said, he did have some mental peculiarities. But even playing left-handed, he won a 1pkt tourn in CA, beating Efren in the finals!

the Beard

One more thing, he couldnt beat Bugs playing anything.

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 26, 2008

lll said:
agree with demonfho completely. only those of you who are in the hall of fame realy know how much it means to be respected by your peers as among the best at what you do and what a great honor to receive it.also i am sure to receive the honor while still alive so you can cherish it means even more.

I am going to be honest Ceicel and I are close and I would Vote for him out of Friend ship. And It would mean a lot to him. And I would be happy for him. If I did vote for him in the hall of fame it would be for the same reason Billy mite vote for him. Because of all the heart he has. And he is in the top ten in Heart. Ceicel could not beat Bugs playing Banks or Onepocket. I dont no if the played at all When Ceicel hung out on the south side. But Ceicel had conflict wherever he went. He did mellow down some with age. Ceiceil was a better nineball player then Bugs. BUt playing banks and one pocket Bugs was a Ball better in both games. BUt as far as heart between Bugs and Ceicel it was a TIE. And one more oppinion. If Ceicel played all the players in the HAll of fame. Ceicel would have been a favorite against some of those players. And he would have beat some of those players. Playing banks and onepocket. And does that qualifie him for the hall of fame yes it does. And Ceicel is a very colorfull caracter. And he gave a lot of his life to pool. And I would vote for him because of his heart and courage. And he is a very interesting pool caracter.

usblues · Oct 26, 2008

Murphy

Murphy

Hi Artie.Was wondering where Cicero Murphy fell in with Bugs and Cecil?I think 14.1 was his main game....good evening,Bob

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 26, 2008

usblues said:
Hi Artie.Was wondering where Cicero Murphy fell in with Bugs and Cecil?I think 14.1 was his main game....good evening,Bob

I would like for you and everyone to no when I post or give my aswer I do not make up stories. I tell it exacly howe I see it and thats me. I dont make up bullshit stories to try to make it interesting. To me tyelling the truth is interesting and thats what makes me fell Good. And what I say is my honest oppinion. And thats what makes me feel good and strong about myself. Cicero Murpy would have beat Bugs and Cecil playing Nine ball and straight pool. Bugs was not in Cecero Murpys class in straight pool and Cicel had no chance either in straight pool. And Cicero Murpy was shooting. He was a tournament player and Bugs WAs A 100% hustles And cecil was about 80% hustler. And Ceciro would have had no chance playing BUgs Banks and Onepocket. And Cicel would have beat Cicero Murpy playing banks and one pocket. And Bugs and Cecil were money players. BUgs had two strong games Banks and One pocket and he played ok nine ball and if he couldnt get a bank pool game or a onepocket game. He would play nine ball. Bugs played for one thing the money not the glory. And Cecil played good for the money too. Comparing Ceciro Murpy to BUgs and Cecil Is like compairing Dallas West to Bugs and Ceicel the played different games and thier strengths were in different games. So you cannot compare a onepocket player to a straight pool player. Willy Mosconie playing straight pool against Ronnie Allen and Willy Mosconie playing one pocket with Ronnie allen. THeir is nothing to compare. Because both players were great at their game. Like Joe Davis playing snooker and willie hoppie playing three cushion . Its a different game. And if you try to comepaire players you should do it in the games the were great at.And I never in my whole life seen Bugs or Cecil play a game of straight pool. BUt Cicero was a good player. I would not but him in the class with the greatest but he was a good player. I hope I answered your qouistion.

usblues · Oct 26, 2008

got it......

got it......

Hey Artie,you sure did.Thanks.And of course you are right on when you mention "on the road" or money players as opposed to tournament players.Growing up in St Paul,there was a real cool hall Downtown,49 tables,every kind including 5-6 ocean snooker tables.Some road players came through,not many....14' ceilings etc.,the atmosphere was great.Watching a 1P video from 1992 with Siegal and Efren,at Hardtimes in LA.Well,thanks again Artie,its a pleasure having you and your tips,experiences etc on this website.Have a large evening,Bob

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 27, 2008

usblues said:
Hey Artie,you sure did.Thanks.And of course you are right on when you mention "on the road" or money players as opposed to tournament players.Growing up in St Paul,there was a real cool hall Downtown,49 tables,every kind including 5-6 ocean snooker tables.Some road players came through,not many....14' ceilings etc.,the atmosphere was great.Watching a 1P video from 1992 with Siegal and Efren,at Hardtimes in LA.Well,thanks again Artie,its a pleasure having you and your tips,experiences etc on this website.Have a large evening,Bob

That reminds me when I was younger and I went to watch Rory Oshea fight Homegrin it was a big fight. And Homgrin was 23 years old and Rory was about 33 or 34 years old and Rory hasant fought for years. And I think the fought 6 rounds Homgrain was a up and comeing good fighter. And you can check everything I am saying because its true and the people their will no. I was al the fight and I was getting drunk and I sat down next to a real nice looking girl I was with Rorys brother Mike Oshea. And I put the make on the girl and I said who do you like and she said the young guy. And I said I will bet on the Rory Oshea and the looser will pay for the dinner. And she said she would but the guy fighting Rory was her boy friend. And I started laughing and the whole fight she was yelling to her boyfriend KILL THE OLD MAN. And Rorys brother was laughing like crazy. Then after the fight the had a party and Gorge Frazer was dancing with all the girls he was a good dancer and I couldnt dance at all. And he had 2 big body guards around him. And Rory introduced me to Frazer and I was drunk and I said do you do anything beside fight and he said he does lots of things. And I said do you play pool and he said a little bit. And I said I will play you some one hundred dollares a game one handed to his two hands. And he said not today. And it was gitting late and I was drunk and I no I couldnt sleep so I asked Frazer to give me a ride to a close restaurant and he said Ok and Frazer and his two body guards gave me a ride to the restaurant. And I said to Frazer you sure you dont want to play any pool. And he said he was tiered and he was going to sleep. And I said thanks and he has a super personality. What a great man. And the next day Rory and I went to the pool room at St paul it was a monster pool room. And i seen Rory talking to this guy he new Rusty. And Rusty didnt no me and he told Rory for me to go and ask that gut to play. And Rory told me who to go and play. And we started playing one hundred dollares a game. And Rory told me the guys a sucker buit I new better wright away if a guy is a sucker Rusty would have wanted half the action its not to hard to figure out. And I new Rusty double steered Rory. And I beat the man for 5 hundred dollares and I told Rory your friend Rusty double steered you. And Rory couldnt belive it. And then after I beat the guy for 5 hundred dollares Rusty and this guy started fighting with each other. And I told Rory you see it now and he said he couldnt belive it. And I beat a couple more people playing one pocket and we went back to chicago. It was a real big pool room with a big lunch counter and I never seen so maney 6 by 12 snooker tables in my life. And we went back to Chicago. And their was a real good bar spot Meniapolis and I one good money their and I will tell you the story some other time. Did you no rusty he was a tough guy and he could fight. I think he had blond hair. He played decent pool. You might no him And the guy I beat was about 6 foot 2 with brown hair. And Rusty jumped on him and anialated him I guee he couldnt belive he lost. Did you no Home grain. the boxer. He is probable in the record books. And do you no were the boxed because I dont remember were the place was. I no it was real big like a stadium. Or a big arina. YOu might no all these places and people I am talking about. My name was Jimmy Gear at that time. And the bar I played in the had some real good bar players. And you will love the story when I tell you what Happaned. The had some big bookmakers around Stpaul and Meniapoles to. I love hering about exciting places I have been and played. Do you no Rusty he was a bretty good player. But he was a better fighter thats how Rory new him. Will thanks for some old memories. THe are realy precious thank you.

usblues · Oct 27, 2008

St Paul,Rusty,1966-7,ocean tables downtown......

St Paul,Rusty,1966-7,ocean tables downtown......

Thats the place Artie,it took up a whole city block.Bowling alley on the first floor,then you walked down 2 flights to the basement where the tables were.It was known by 2 names,Harkins and/or St Paul Rec.On the corner of 8th and Robert Street.I'm sitting here typing this out 2 blocks from there.I bought a condo 2 years ago.I can look out my window and see where the back entrance used to be.I'm on the 7th floor looking down and I'm trying to put it all together.Feels like that movie"Barfly" with Micky Rourke and that beautiful blonde......For me it was sometime in late 1966 when I walked in there for the first time with my 2-piece.I was 16 and had got good playing at a bar in So. St. Paul so evertbody said to go there cause thats where the best guys are.I saw Rusty of course,a couple of days later, after the 2nd best guy there,Don Gibson,took all my money playing 9-ball,[45$],Gibson and I became friends and Harkins became my home for about a 6-7 months till I got sent to reform school [April 1967] and then the Army [Aug 67].St Paul/Mpls used to be, in the 30's kind of a gangster town.Dillinger and those other guys used to pass through real often cause the cops,D.A.'s etc. were all on the take.I'm thinking you passed through in the 1960's.Hopefully I can research when that prizefight was with Holmgren you mentioned.I'm going to get some sleep now and when I get up,I will get back to you on these memories.It was 40 some years ago for me so I look forward to rappin' somemore soon Artie.See you,Bob

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 27, 2008

usblues said:
Thats the place Artie,it took up a whole city block.Bowling alley on the first floor,then you walked down 2 flights to the basement where the tables were.It was known by 2 names,Harkins and/or St Paul Rec.On the corner of 8th and Robert Street.I'm sitting here typing this out 2 blocks from there.I bought a condo 2 years ago.I can look out my window and see where the back entrance used to be.I'm on the 7th floor looking down and I'm trying to put it all together.Feels like that movie"Barfly" with Micky Rourke and that beautiful blonde......For me it was sometime in late 1966 when I walked in there for the first time with my 2-piece.I was 16 and had got good playing at a bar in So. St. Paul so evertbody said to go there cause thats where the best guys are.I saw Rusty of course,a couple of days later, after the 2nd best guy there,Don Gibson,took all my money playing 9-ball,[45$],Gibson and I became friends and Harkins became my home for about a 6-7 months till I got sent to reform school [April 1967] and then the Army [Aug 67].St Paul/Mpls used to be, in the 30's kind of a gangster town.Dillinger and those other guys used to pass through real often cause the cops,D.A.'s etc. were all on the take.I'm thinking you passed through in the 1960's.Hopefully I can research when that prizefight was with Holmgren you mentioned.I'm going to get some sleep now and when I get up,I will get back to you on these memories.It was 40 some years ago for me so I look forward to rappin' somemore soon Artie.See you,Bob

You now the pool room better then me. IT was the biggest pool room I seen. It was a monster. You no Rusty to that was Rorys friend. If I thought their was a lot of action their I would have stayed a week with Rory. BUt It didnt look like a lot of action Just a Giant pool room. If I had some one that new the pool room and all the players and the money people I would have stayed longer. But to do it all yourself and find out who is who takes time. And I was their to watch Rory Box. So you new Rusty thats great because then you might figure out who the guy was he steered into me and then got in a big fight with. The guy was bigger then Rusty. Was their a lot of action there? If I new you then and you new the players we would have made some good moey. Because nobody new me. I will try to find out were the fought and I will let you no. Its great to no people that remember the same place I no. IT brings back old memories. And all I realy remember how big the pool room was. I have been lots of places on the road. But I never told no one were I went or who I played and I never used my real name. I would allways say I was from wisconsin. Or Milwakee. And I would always act like a sucker. I beat a lot of people And if I lost 3 times on all my times on the road its a lot. I wis I could remember the bar that I played at but I dont. I remember I was ahead about 15 hundred dollares. And I was still playing eight ball. And those were Rorys drinking years. And Rory got into talking and Rory said he is a boxer. And this guy was in the service and he told rory that he was a boxer to and Rory was drunk and he told the guy do you want to fight for some money. And the guy told Rory I will fight you for nothing. And then Rory got all parinoied and he went and got my jacket and pointed like he had a gun under the jacket. And he said nobody move and then the guy told Rory waite her I am going to get my gun. And Rory said to me lets go Jimmy. And I but the stick down and Rory was backing out the door. Like a cagne movie. And when we got outside Rory said comon lets run. And he was way ahead of me running. And the were coming after us. And I could run good in those days. But Rory went a different direction. And I went into this pizza store and I told the girl behind the counter that these guys were after me looking to rob me. And I need a ride to the hotel room. And I showed her and her boss my bank role i had about 8 thousand dollares. And I asked if you give me a ride to the hotel room I will give you one hundred dollares. Ans she said ok and her boss said ok too. And she gave me a ride to the hotel room and Their was Rory laying in bed. And I said this is what I call watching my back. And he said their is nothing else he could do. And then we left town. BUt that was a good bar and I could have won more money. But it is what it is. But that was pretty exciting. BUt I will try to find out were he fought? Did that pool room have a lot of action? Rusty played pretty good is that wright?

philwelch · Oct 27, 2008

I looked up Rory's record he was 23-5-1 as a pro with 9 ko's. He knocked out Harry Bellafonte. K----O K-A-A-A-O daylight come and me wanna go home.
The O'Shea's are legendary in Chicago. boxer: Rory O'Shea
Global ID 30192
sex male
division light middleweight
nationality United States
residence Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States
won 23 (KO 9) + lost 5 (KO 0) + drawn 1 = 29
rounds boxed 168 : KO% 31.03
biography

bouts
Lb St Kg date print

date Lb opponent Lb W - L - D last 6 location
1976-11-09 Gary Holmgren 15-2-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States L PTS 10 10
1975-09-04 150 Columbus Lloyd 145 7-7-1
Hippogriff Night Club, Saint Louis Park, Minnesota, United States W KO 1
Date Approximate.

1975-07-16 Gary Guiden 4-1-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States L UD 6 6
1975-05-22 147 Willie Williams 143½ 10-33-5
Auditorium, Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States W KO 3 8
1975-04-23 Gary Holmgren 7-1-0
Metropolitan Sports Center, Bloomington, Minnesota, United States L PTS 6 6
1965-11-15 148½ Des Rea 147 9-1-0
National Sporting Club, Piccadilly, London, United Kingdom L PTS 8 8x3
~ referee: Bill Williams ~
Boxing News 19/11/65

1965-11-08 149¾ Fred Powney 142½ 22-4-4
Ice Rink, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 12/11/65

1965-10-11 148 Ernesto Musso 149 6-11-0
Hilton Hotel (Anglo American SC), Mayfair, London, United Kingdom L PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 15/10/65

1965-09-21 148 Gordon McAteer 141¾ 19-1-0
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom D PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 24/9/65

1965-08-20 152 Tommy Saibu 154 1-5-0
Ice Rink, Paisley, Scotland, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 27/8/65

1965-07-27 157 Charlie Jordan 160 2-3-0
Auditorium, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W KO 5 8
1965-04-14 Frank Holloway 9-6-1
Miami Beach, Florida, United States W PTS 8 8
1965-03-18 148 Butch Jackson 149 1-2-1
Miami, Florida, United States W TKO 7 8
1965-03-10 152 Linnes Johnson 155½ 3-5-0
Convention Hall, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W PTS 8 8
1965-02-12 Jimmy Beasley 13-20-1
Miami, Florida, United States W KO 7
1965-01-29 Harry Bellefonte 11-32-4
West Palm Beach, Florida, United States W KO 5
1965-01-22 Richie Smith 17-18-2
West Palm Beach, Florida, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-08-06 TJ Jones 17-7-0
Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States W PTS 8 8
1964-07-10 Jimmy Griffin 4-7-1
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W PTS 8 8
1964-05-08 George Meaux 5-8-1
Coliseum, Chicago, Illinois, United States W PTS 4 4
1964-04-23 George Meaux 5-7-1
Omaha, Nebraska, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-03-17 151 Rudy Rodriguez 155 4-5-1
Mayo Civic Auditorium, Rochester, Minnesota, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-02-06 Charley Harvey 1-0-1
Omaha, Nebraska, United States W KO 2
1964-01-29 152½ Jimmy Griffin 149½ 3-4-0
Mayo Civic Auditorium, Rochester, Minnesota, United States W UD 6 6
1964-01-17 Charley Fell 0-2-0
Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, United States W KO 1
1963-12-14 Jimmy Griffin 3-3-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W PTS 6 6
1963-08-19 Bruce McLeod 0-0-0
Veterans Memorial Stadium, Saginaw, Michigan, United States W PTS 4 4
1963-06-05 150 Young Sugar Ray 147½ 0-0-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W KO 1
~ time: 1:20 ~

1963-04-26 Frank Harris 0-1-0
Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States W PTS 4 4

verified unverified unsanctioned

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© BoxRec : this data may be incomplete and/or inaccurate : 0.2761

lll · Oct 27, 2008

i dont know cecils story . could someone tell what happened that he hd to change from right handed to left?

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 27, 2008

philwelch said:
I looked up Rory's record he was 23-5-1 as a pro with 9 ko's. He knocked out Harry Bellafonte. K----O K-A-A-A-O daylight come and me wanna go home.
The O'Shea's are legendary in Chicago. boxer: Rory O'Shea
Global ID 30192
sex male
division light middleweight
nationality United States
residence Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States
won 23 (KO 9) + lost 5 (KO 0) + drawn 1 = 29
rounds boxed 168 : KO% 31.03
biography

bouts
Lb St Kg date print

date Lb opponent Lb W - L - D last 6 location
1976-11-09 Gary Holmgren 15-2-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States L PTS 10 10
1975-09-04 150 Columbus Lloyd 145 7-7-1
Hippogriff Night Club, Saint Louis Park, Minnesota, United States W KO 1
Date Approximate.

1975-07-16 Gary Guiden 4-1-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States L UD 6 6
1975-05-22 147 Willie Williams 143½ 10-33-5
Auditorium, Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States W KO 3 8
1975-04-23 Gary Holmgren 7-1-0
Metropolitan Sports Center, Bloomington, Minnesota, United States L PTS 6 6
1965-11-15 148½ Des Rea 147 9-1-0
National Sporting Club, Piccadilly, London, United Kingdom L PTS 8 8x3
~ referee: Bill Williams ~
Boxing News 19/11/65

1965-11-08 149¾ Fred Powney 142½ 22-4-4
Ice Rink, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 12/11/65

1965-10-11 148 Ernesto Musso 149 6-11-0
Hilton Hotel (Anglo American SC), Mayfair, London, United Kingdom L PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 15/10/65

1965-09-21 148 Gordon McAteer 141¾ 19-1-0
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom D PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 24/9/65

1965-08-20 152 Tommy Saibu 154 1-5-0
Ice Rink, Paisley, Scotland, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
Boxing News 27/8/65

1965-07-27 157 Charlie Jordan 160 2-3-0
Auditorium, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W KO 5 8
1965-04-14 Frank Holloway 9-6-1
Miami Beach, Florida, United States W PTS 8 8
1965-03-18 148 Butch Jackson 149 1-2-1
Miami, Florida, United States W TKO 7 8
1965-03-10 152 Linnes Johnson 155½ 3-5-0
Convention Hall, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W PTS 8 8
1965-02-12 Jimmy Beasley 13-20-1
Miami, Florida, United States W KO 7
1965-01-29 Harry Bellefonte 11-32-4
West Palm Beach, Florida, United States W KO 5
1965-01-22 Richie Smith 17-18-2
West Palm Beach, Florida, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-08-06 TJ Jones 17-7-0
Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States W PTS 8 8
1964-07-10 Jimmy Griffin 4-7-1
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W PTS 8 8
1964-05-08 George Meaux 5-8-1
Coliseum, Chicago, Illinois, United States W PTS 4 4
1964-04-23 George Meaux 5-7-1
Omaha, Nebraska, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-03-17 151 Rudy Rodriguez 155 4-5-1
Mayo Civic Auditorium, Rochester, Minnesota, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-02-06 Charley Harvey 1-0-1
Omaha, Nebraska, United States W KO 2
1964-01-29 152½ Jimmy Griffin 149½ 3-4-0
Mayo Civic Auditorium, Rochester, Minnesota, United States W UD 6 6
1964-01-17 Charley Fell 0-2-0
Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, United States W KO 1
1963-12-14 Jimmy Griffin 3-3-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W PTS 6 6
1963-08-19 Bruce McLeod 0-0-0
Veterans Memorial Stadium, Saginaw, Michigan, United States W PTS 4 4
1963-06-05 150 Young Sugar Ray 147½ 0-0-0
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W KO 1
~ time: 1:20 ~

1963-04-26 Frank Harris 0-1-0
Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States W PTS 4 4

verified unverified unsanctioned

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© BoxRec : this data may be incomplete and/or inaccurate : 0.2761

Thanks a lot it looks pretty accurate to me and I think Holgren was about 26 years old when he fought Rory. Rory was a better street fighter then he was in the ring. Because he learned Judo and was a champion wriesler. I never seen him get knocked down. And we use to be best friends. But nothing lasts forever. But he was realy a bad man. And he foolled everyone because he was good looking and didnt look tough. But he was a bad man. And he had a tough reputation to go with it. And even the police were scared of him. He would tell them put your gun down and me and yopu can go out back. But nobody wanted none of his business. I will tell you a great story that happened in Jackson ville Florida were Samie Blumenthal Horace And Harly hung out. I will save it for some other time. But its a beauty.

jay helfert · Oct 30, 2008

I probably know Cecil as well as anyone. He was a very talented athlete, being a champion diver and gymnast in high school. He was the most talented black player I ever saw when he was a young man, and he could play all games. But Cecil's big problem was the chip he had on his shoulder. He would frequently get in arguments with his opponents over minor things. I tried to tell him he had to calm down, because he was going to win anyway. It didn't matter, he just had a short fuse and it was his downfall over and over again.

I suspect it was his temper that got him in trouble in Detroit and led to him having his wrist broken. The small bones in his wrist never healed properly and he could not stroke the ball firmly with his right hand ever again. So he learned to play left handed and became one of California's better players again. He was not nearly so talented with his left hand and he looked a little awkward. But he rarely missed a ball and won some small tournaments anyway. I took him on the road a couple of times in the 80's and we always came back with the dough. He even had a 4th place finish in the McDermott Masters in Milwaukee in the 80's, against a very strong field. I staked him and Buddy knocked him out. I think he won $2,000 for 4th.

Cecil had another problem that torments him to this day. He fell victim to a particular potent drug that sapped him both mentally and physically. He is not a shadow of the player he was 15 years ago when he beat Efren in a challenge match at Hard Times. Cecil hung out regularly in my last pool room at Hollywood Park in Inglewood. He tried to play some money games but usually came up short. Cecil Tugwell is a sad story of wasted talent. With a better head on his shoulders he might have been another Cisero Murphy, famous and respected. He could have been a great one, not just a foot note in pool history.

usblues · Oct 31, 2008

Home again,Fightin Fifties,Lights out...

Home again,Fightin Fifties,Lights out...

Hey Artie,back now in St Paul.Went from sleep to out-of-town work to here now, Friday AM.Thanks Philwelch for that list of fights,like you say,the O'shea's are legendary in Chicago like the Flanagans here in St Paul.Lots of guys looked up to local fighters then.....Artie,I saw Rusty alot,but never spoke more than 10 words to him.He was the man and I was 16,but this is what I remember:He was the best player in town,he shot almost as good 1-handed.He had a long bridge and 1-pocket was his favorite game,14.1 second.At 4 oclock every weekday,he and 3 other guys would come in and play 1P for a couple of hours... he actually wasn't around alot and I never saw him in a big money game.He had to give up too much cause everyone knew him.I don't know what he did away from Harkins....a road hustler came in one day looking for him,so we tried to reach him,but couldn't.The guy hung around for a couple of hours and when it was apparent Rusty wasn't coming,he showed us his real game.He started running rack after rack after rack.....he was quite a bit better than Rusty,we all felt bad when he left.....The money shooting was never in the league of Detroit or Chicago.Lots of small games,you probably didn't stay long here......well,I'll quit bending your ear,see you around then,Bob

Artie Bodendorfer · Oct 31, 2008

usblues said:
Hey Artie,back now in St Paul.Went from sleep to out-of-town work to here now, Friday AM.Thanks Philwelch for that list of fights,like you say,the O'shea's are legendary in Chicago like the Flanagans here in St Paul.Lots of guys looked up to local fighters then.....Artie,I saw Rusty alot,but never spoke more than 10 words to him.He was the man and I was 16,but this is what I remember:He was the best player in town,he shot almost as good 1-handed.He had a long bridge and 1-pocket was his favorite game,14.1 second.At 4 oclock every weekday,he and 3 other guys would come in and play 1P for a couple of hours... he actually wasn't around alot and I never saw him in a big money game.He had to give up too much cause everyone knew him.I don't know what he did away from Harkins....a road hustler came in one day looking for him,so we tried to reach him,but couldn't.The guy hung around for a couple of hours and when it was apparent Rusty wasn't coming,he showed us his real game.He started running rack after rack after rack.....he was quite a bit better than Rusty,we all felt bad when he left.....The money shooting was never in the league of Detroit or Chicago.Lots of small games,you probably didn't stay long here......well,I'll quit bending your ear,see you around then,Bob

Thanks for everything I only had the one accurance with Rusty like I said he was Rorys freind or Rory thought he was his friend. But after I beat the guy he steared into us. I asked himwho else wants to play and I left it open for him to play to and he didnt say anything else I think he was afraid of Rory. And Rusty beat the crap out of the gut I beat and I dont no why. And the guy was way bigger and wighed way more then Rusty . But Rusty won easy. And I lold Rory this gut is not your friend he tried to trap you and if you would have been with a weeker player you would have lost your money. And then Rory staired at Rusty like he let him no that he tried to trap him. BUt I played a couple more suckers and it was all over. And I realy dont no if their was good money thier or not. Because we left in two days. And we were taking cabs around. Put the pool room was a monster joint. And the had a big lunch counter. I realy loved the pool room because it reminded me of Bensingers. But thaks for the old memories and I no I am not senile yet. And the caracters are real A million thanks to Phil and everyone for Rorys record and its always good to read about people we no. It makes you feel alive. And their isnt to much more to life then feeling alive. Trick A Treat. Who you gone beat?

Your take on Cecil Tugwell?

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