old vs new rules

[lll]

this is from the 1962 johnston city hustlers jamboree


this is from our current rules

 

[lll]

our current rules

 

[lll]

interesting in the old rules that you could make seven balls in your opponents pocket and he would keep them
if he warned you before the 8th ball......
or win if you made 8 in his pocket.....

 

[lll]

here are the rules from 1962

 

[lll]

for the record
I am not looking to start a rules controversy again or asking to change our rules
i stumbled upon this and found it interesting as i never read the old rules

 

[darmoose]

I see there was NO requirement to hit a rail after contact, except on the break. Guess that came later. Rules changing all the time.

 

[beatle]

the only fair way if you change it, is if when you going to spot the balls the person shooting them in, should be charged one for each one he made. so if he runs 3, spot three and he owes three.

other wise you are making the person sitting down responsible for the person's shooting mistakes. plus it enables the offender after he realizes he shot one in to quickly shoot in other that are in front of the pocket so they get spotted.

years back we played the old rules and if you made balls for me tough luck for you. if i am eating a sandwich and you are shooting balls in my pocket and im not watching why punish me.

 

[catkins]

seems like also if you can run out in your opponents pocket and they are distracted since if you can make 8 before he warns you your shooting at the wrong pocket you win

 

[NH Steve]

Actually one of the changes we have been talking about falls right into this thread larry. It is the idea of adding the last sentence below that I highlighted.

11.2 Continuing with the wrong pocket: In the event that a player shooting into the wrong pocket is permitted to continue the same inning at the table (beyond what is entitled by legally pocketing a ball in their own pocket) by their opponent’s or the referee’s failure to notify them of their error, such failure of notification does not legitimize any additional balls pocketed in that inning, whether pocketed in the shooter’s pocket or their opponent’s pocket. Thus the first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the shooter’s opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. Any subsequently pocketed balls in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls, because it is the referee’s or opponent’s responsibility to notify the shooter before they erroneously continue their inning. However, if the game is played in error to a concession, then the game stands as a win.

 

[NH Steve]

I see there was NO requirement to hit a rail after contact, except on the break. Guess that came later. Rules changing all the time.

That's not true lol. These rules are Jansco's One Pocket specific game rules, not general pool rules, which of course also applied to One Pocket as they played it at Jansco's. But you can see that they made it clear, for a legal break, either the cue ball or an object ball had to hit a rail -- not both.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Wow Larry, what a find! I have never seen this before. One thing for sure we now know when the 3 foul rule was adopted. I have to wonder if that was the result of how Marcel Camp played. I guess as others would also surmise, Hayden Lingo wrote this. It is very well written. I especially admire the Object of the Game statement. I love the heading; How To Play. Rule 3. appears to be for the audience information. Rule 10. is of course for handicap action games for the publics knowledge and possibly the players knowledge also. Rule 11 & 12 are funny. Can you imagine the opponent losing track of how many balls in error is pocketed into to his pocket, and then oops 8 balls, I lost!

I believe this is intentionally short and sweat to give the general public the idea of how the game is played, and was probably as a handout. Thanks, Larry, it is greatly appreciated! I am making a copy of this and framing it. Whitey

 

[hankh]

Howdy All;

I'll agree that these appear to be for informing those not familiar with the intricacies, however ...
#4 refers to the Break and how either the CB or an OB " must touch a rail for a Safety."
Then in the Ed's. Notes (bottom Right panel), it discusses Safety Play. I take that as implying
that a ball needs to touch a rail once the CB has been stroked if not aiming for your pocket.
Does that make sense?

Yea, Larry, thanks for digging this up and posting it.

hank

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Howdy All;

I'll agree that these appear to be for informing those not familiar with the intricacies, however ...
#4 refers to the Break and how either the CB or an OB " must touch a rail for a Safety."
Then in the Ed's. Notes (bottom Right panel), it discusses Safety Play. I take that as implying
that a ball needs to touch a rail once the CB has been stroked if not aiming for your pocket.
Does that make sense?

Yea, Larry, thanks for digging this up and posting it.

hank

Hank, thanks so much for pointing out the Note: Yes, it makes perfect sense, and it also guides the public to realize a further objective of the game; 'if you can not score then keep your opponent from scoring'. This is a very important and precious statement. Sublimely written.

This is old school writing which is now a dead art. But, obviously the writer was charged with getting the gist of the game put down within this space. It probably folded up to fit into a pocket. Whitey

 

[darmoose]

Hank, thanks so much for pointing out the Note: Yes, it makes perfect sense, and it also guides the public to realize a further objective of the game; 'if you can not score then keep your opponent from scoring'. This is a very important and precious statement. Sublimely written.

This is old school writing which is now a dead art. But, obviously the writer was charged with getting the gist of the game put down within this space. It probably folded up to fit into a pocket. Whitey

Whitey and Hank,

I must be missing something. Where do you get the interpretation that on safety plays, that a ball must contact a rail after contact. Although I would have to agree with what Steve said that this might not show all the rules that applied, I can't see how you can get this from what is written here. Help me to understand please.

 

[hankh]

darmoose, Howdy;

Whitey and Hank,

I must be missing something. Where do you get the interpretation that on safety plays, that a ball must contact a rail after contact. Although I would have to agree with what Steve said that this might not show all the rules that applied, I can't see how you can get this from what is written here. Help me to understand please.

Read rule #4 regarding the Break. It states, that " On the 'break' either an object ball or the cueball must
touch a rail for a Safety."

Now anyone that is remotely familiar with pool/pocket billiards knows the basics behind a break shot,
right. The mention that the rail contact creates a 'Safety', Then when a thinking person reads the Ed. Note
it allows for the presumption that when hitting an object ball and then either it or the cueball or another
object ball striking a rail and not dropping anything into a pocket then creates a 'Safety'. When I read it the
first time I was able to connect the dots.
See how many words they saved by realizing that their customers were enlightened enough to figure all that
out without a long winded explanation?

respectfully;

hank

 

[darmoose]

darmoose, Howdy;



Read rule #4 regarding the Break. It states, that " On the 'break' either an object ball or the cueball must
touch a rail for a Safety."

Now anyone that is remotely familiar with pool/pocket billiards knows the basics behind a break shot,
right. The mention that the rail contact creates a 'Safety', Then when a thinking person reads the Ed. Note
it allows for the presumption that when hitting an object ball and then either it or the cueball or another
object ball striking a rail and not dropping anything into a pocket then creates a 'Safety'. When I read it the
first time I was able to connect the dots.
See how many words they saved by realizing that their customers were enlightened enough to figure all that
out without a long winded explanation?

respectfully;

hank

Howdy Hank,

I am certainly "remotely familiar" with pool/pocket billiards. Your finding that connecting these far distant dots is typical of how many pool rules have evolved over the years, allowing for subjective interpretations and ambiguity.
That seems like quite a stretch between those dots you connected. Also, I imagine Steve doesn't appreciate your comment about only "thinking" persons being able to make your inference. Note in his post below, he needed to invoke the "general pool rules" to make sense of these rules from Jansco. Not as quick witted as you, I guess.

As for saving words to be clear, I would think just simply saying this: "All legal shots will involve a ball contacting a rail after ball to ball contact", 15 words that require no dot connecting would be far clearer than the 54 words located in two areas that you are referring to.

JMHO

That's not true lol. These rules are Jansco's One Pocket specific game rules, not general pool rules, which of course also applied to One Pocket as they played it at Jansco's. But you can see that they made it clear, for a legal break, either the cue ball or an object ball had to hit a rail -- not both.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Darmoose, when I replied to Hank's comment; "It makes perfect sense", and it does, you play a safety. I could see how a non savvy spectator wondering what a safety is, would then back track to the word 'safety' on the break and connect the dots, possibly. But in all reality I take this for what it is, a simple game guide line for those spectators that do not have a clue. I am sure the lady and gentlemen spectators will ask; "What is a safety", "why did he not try to score", and so forth. And by this written OP game rule guide line, when they break the rack, they know a ball has to touch a rail for a safety.

I like how the use the word; 'rail', instead of cushion, this is my way of thinking also, old school.
Sure love this find! Whitey

 

[lll]

Actually one of the changes we have been talking about falls right into this thread larry. It is the idea of adding the last sentence below that I highlighted.

11.2 Continuing with the wrong pocket: In the event that a player shooting into the wrong pocket is permitted to continue the same inning at the table (beyond what is entitled by legally pocketing a ball in their own pocket) by their opponent’s or the referee’s failure to notify them of their error, such failure of notification does not legitimize any additional balls pocketed in that inning, whether pocketed in the shooter’s pocket or their opponent’s pocket. Thus the first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the shooter’s opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. Any subsequently pocketed balls in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls, because it is the referee’s or opponent’s responsibility to notify the shooter before they erroneously continue their inning. However, if the game is played in error to a concession, then the game stands as a win.

steve i like this because in the other rules the opponent could keep 7 balls if he reminds you before the winning ball

 

[lll]

I see there was NO requirement to hit a rail after contact, except on the break. Guess that came later. Rules changing all the time.

darell
to me the rules above recommend playing a safety when there was no shot.
there is no mention of the rule for a legal safety. the rules above do not specifically say there was no requirement to hit a rail
the rules for a legal safety was in the official rules of pool for straight pool and all pool players knew that.
i beleive and this is conjecture the specifics of a legal break were spelled out because it differed from straight pool
icbw

 

[lll]

hank and whitey glad you liked the thread