Aggressive vs. safe?

[gulfportdoc]

What's the consensus? Does one play tight against an aggressive player, and aggressive against a safe player? It seems to me that when I play a guy who wants to keep shooting at low percentage shots, or flyers, if I play tight and patient, he'll sooner or later sell the farm.

Of course if I try to play loose against a super tight player, it might be ME who sells the old ranchero! So I suppose one must match tight with tight... All the posts about Artie B's lock-down style of play has got me to thinking.

What has been y'alls experience?

Doc

 

[Mike]

I play a loose player as tight as possible and find that it frustrates the hell out of him. I feel as you do that eventually he'll sell out--and he usually does. Overall I play the percentages.

 

[Fred Floyd]

Initially, let me say that I love this website. I started playing one hole four months ago, and from the first game it has become my favorite game.

Back to the topic.

I play as tight as possible against anyone. One thing that I've noticed, which has been discussed, is that aggressive players all most always break down and sell out at some point. I've found out that when I play aggressive against another aggressive player that I lose (probably due to inexperience).

Example: I was playing aggressively in a game and went down 6-0 in an even match. I started playing my style (tight), and won the game 8-7. The other player was playing the score, and I would still a ball here and there. Eventually, the other player became so aggressive that he sold out and I won the match.

Fred Floyd

 

[i'll_bust_you]

safe or aggressive

safe or aggressive

Well, as the saying goes the best offense is a good defense. (unless you like to fire a bank in warp speed go into the pack and run 8 and out). I think that is why one pocket players who are well past they're prime can still be super competetive. I try to squeeze and squeeze my opponent til they give up a shot. One pocket I beleive is more about beating someone to the shot than taking flyers. Just take a look at some cookie monster accustats and you'll see my point illustrated to perfection. He rarely if ever gives up a shot and he picks and chooses his spots wisely. (He also took home the cash way more than not too) I believe a good mover can beat a good shooter more times than not...

 

[jazznpool]

My philosophy is to play on the tight side but take reasonable risks that help give you leverage on that shot and later. Putting balls near your pocket and on your side of the table is usually a good thing--especially if you have blockage. Depending on the skill level and style of the opponent, I'd say I tend to take more risks when I'm almost hopelessly behind in a game in effort to get back in it. Since I don't have runout firepower the strategy of cinching a ball or two and then ducking is a good one. With the level of most of the guys I play with "moves" aren't enough--you must be able to create a sensible starter shot somewhere and generate offense to win.

Martin

What's the consensus? Does one play tight against an aggressive player, and aggressive against a safe player? It seems to me that when I play a guy who wants to keep shooting at low percentage shots, or flyers, if I play tight and patient, he'll sooner or later sell the farm.

Of course if I try to play loose against a super tight player, it might be ME who sells the old ranchero! So I suppose one must match tight with tight... All the posts about Artie B's lock-down style of play has got me to thinking.

What has been y'alls experience?

Doc

 

[philip guagliardo]

there's a problem sometimes when you play to tight . eventually you might have a fairly difficult shot your forced to shoot ! but because you've been bunting for so long , you miss the shot ! at least that happens to me ! I think the best way to play is judging your opponents ability . in otherwords give him a couple of long eye test shots and see how he does . especially if he's a mover and not a shooter . the best move is 8 and out for players with the ability ! playing tight has its merits , but you also really need a talent to execute that style perfectly . guys like artie and grady are rare breeds and can and did master that style , but just remember they also ran 8 and out also . my opinion is still you play the player. if your a better shooter play agressive . if your a better mover than him play tight . just a short stops view of the game . race track phil

 

[lfigueroa]

Well, of course there’s a difference between aggressive and reckless, but I believe you have to fire back at an aggressive player or you’ll just spent the entire game digging out balls from near his pocket. And even against a pinch and squeezer, you have to maintain an aggressive offense, or eventually they’ll get you in an unbreakable toe hold. IOW, you can never not play aggressive, to one degree or another.

IMO, an important distinction is how the game has evolved over the last few years. Shots that use to be considered hyper-aggressive are now just par for the course. On many shots that use to be primarily safety shots, many more players have now learned how to shoot them as two-way shots that are both defensive and offensive.

I think there are at least three reasons for this: First, Efren came to this country and raised the bar for pool playing in general. It went from just kicking at a ball to make contact, to kicking to hit a particular side of the ball, with a particular speed, to achieve a particular outcome. Second, Accu-Stats came along and people could see how the shots were played and listen to the expert commentary by guys like Grady, Icardona, DiLiberto, and a host of others. Ronnie Allen once said of this phenomenon, “Shots it took me 15 years to learn, 17 year old kids are shooting nowadays.” And third, 1pocket became much more popular and with more players interpreting the game, the evolution of the game sped up and the general level of play rose.

IOW, it ain’t your mother’s 1pocket anymore.

Lou Figueroa

What's the consensus? Does one play tight against an aggressive player, and aggressive against a safe player? It seems to me that when I play a guy who wants to keep shooting at low percentage shots, or flyers, if I play tight and patient, he'll sooner or later sell the farm.

Of course if I try to play loose against a super tight player, it might be ME who sells the old ranchero! So I suppose one must match tight with tight... All the posts about Artie B's lock-down style of play has got me to thinking.

What has been y'alls experience?

Doc

 

[senor]

What's the consensus? Does one play tight against an aggressive player, and aggressive against a safe player? It seems to me that when I play a guy who wants to keep shooting at low percentage shots, or flyers, if I play tight and patient, he'll sooner or later sell the farm.

Of course if I try to play loose against a super tight player, it might be ME who sells the old ranchero! So I suppose one must match tight with tight... All the posts about Artie B's lock-down style of play has got me to thinking.

What has been y'alls experience?

Doc

Regarding tight vs. loose, I tend to let the score of the game dictate the strategy. Try to beat your opponent to the first shot, and if you do, you may be able to squeeze the rest of the game if you don't win from the first shot. If your opponent beats you to the shot, you may need to try to create a little more offense.

This is also something I firmly believe in....Let's say you had an early lead of 6 or 7 to 0 for your opponent. You try to put the squeeze on but he makes a helluva come back to where the game is even or you have a one ball lead. In this situation, it no longer makes sense to play the squeeze game as the aggressor usually wins from here. So as a general rule, if I need 1 and there are 2 balls on the table, I play like I need 2.

 

[jrhendy]

Shot Selection

Shot Selection

While it is true that eight and out is the best move there is, IMO shot selection is the key to good one pocket. You still have to be able to come with a tough shot sometimes when you need it, and if your always ducking, the tough shots are always harder. A good safety that might get you a few balls later is better than one or two now. But most of you know all this. The top players are usually on the aggressive side. I never got to watch Artie play, but I have to believe he could run balls in order to beat the top players he played against, and could come with a tough shot when it was the best option. Lots of good players "safe" themselves out of the money because they won't pull the trigger when they have to. I'd rather match up with a conservative player than someone who knows a few moves but is a good shotmaker & runs balls. The top players in the Sacramento area can compete with anyone in the country except Efren, and they are very aggressive. You won't see Billy Palmer or Tony Chohan safe themselves out of a match. They go for their hole.

 

[NH Steve]

I got beat twice tonight when I had a real nice group of balls in front of my pocket, with nothing on my opponent's side, and I thought I played a real tough up-table safety. Once, my opponent made a table length backwards cut and turned the game around. The other game he kicked a ball way up by the side pocket into his hole and rolled over me. They were both desparation-type shots that probably would have sold the farm had they not dropped, but they both dropped.

The thing with a strong position and a great safety is that your opponent might yet find a flyer that goes. Tonight anyway, I think offense wins more games than defense...

 

[JohnInNH]

Aggressive vs safe

Aggressive vs safe

This question comes up often in every pool game and first I would say that it all depends on your opponent however! most of the time the answer is aggressive play will most always win out in the long run so if you want to win the majority of matches, you must put pressure on your opponent however in every game there is a right time and a wrong time so choosing when to be aggressive is the key but I can only think of one opponent where this was not the case this particular players safety play was second to none, and the final outcome was always in doubt.

Regards,

smitty

 

[piggybank04]

While it is true that eight and out is the best move there is, IMO shot selection is the key to good one pocket. You still have to be able to come with a tough shot sometimes when you need it, and if your always ducking, the tough shots are always harder. A good safety that might get you a few balls later is better than one or two now. But most of you know all this. The top players are usually on the aggressive side. I never got to watch Artie play, but I have to believe he could run balls in order to beat the top players he played against, and could come with a tough shot when it was the best option. Lots of good players "safe" themselves out of the money because they won't pull the trigger when they have to. I'd rather match up with a conservative player than someone who knows a few moves but is a good shotmaker & runs balls. The top players in the Sacramento area can compete with anyone in the country except Efren, and they are very aggressive. You won't see Billy Palmer or Tony Chohan safe themselves out of a match. They go for their hole.

yeah,John, i used to safe myself right out of games......i might lose now,but i prefer to go down in a giant ball of flames rather than die with a whimper......the guys that play me say"wow you have to be really careful with him....he will shoot at his hole" i play my share of safeties of course......i am always looking for something new that nobody has ever seen.......the great thing about op is that there's plenty of room for all kinds of ideas.....

 

[LastTwo]

I think it was Ronnie Allen who said that when you are behind, play like a lion and when you are ahead play like a lamb. I dont know jack about one pocket but this makes sense. He also said that when he is ahead he just sends all the balls up table.

 

[fred bentivegna]

The final solution

The final solution

I think it was Ronnie Allen who said that when you are behind, play like a lion and when you are ahead play like a lamb. I dont know jack about one pocket but this makes sense. He also said that when he is ahead he just sends all the balls up table.

You will never get better advice about how to play OnePocket if you live to be 100! That is the game in a very simple nutshell.
the Beard

 

[gulfportdoc]

You will never get better advice about how to play OnePocket if you live to be 100! That is the game in a very simple nutshell.
the Beard

What if you're even?

Doc

 

[fred bentivegna]

Very good question!

Very good question!

What if you're even?

Doc

Doc, I'm getting old and soft now, so I'm gonna release the third part of this simple equation. I want to put it on my favorite site, Onepocket.org. Hopefully the boys on AZ and Billiard Digest forums arent paying attention.
1. When you're ahead take only high percentage shots.
2. When you are behind you can shoot at low percentage shots because to sit and wait is a losing stategy.
3. When the game is even what percentage type shots should you stick to? When ahead, high percentage. When behind, low percentage. When even, seek shots that are never lower than even-money to execute. It's ridiculously simple but is seldom followed as stringently as it should be. Artie Bodendorfer's percentages were brutally correct. Keep this in mind and you will always know what the right shot is. Remember they build billion dollar Casino's based on a couple of percentage points in their favor.
the Beard

 

[gulfportdoc]

Doc, I'm getting old and soft now, so I'm gonna release the third part of this simple equation. I want to put it on my favorite site, Onepocket.org.

Thanks very much for the information, Fred. You can be sure I'll apply that to my game strategy. Obviously the key is to be sure to know one's own percentages for any given type of shot.

Doc

 

[champagne]

tight or loose?

tight or loose?

i think good defense makes great offense.if your are playing a great shot maker you had better squeese him.bad shot maker you can go for a litte more