Best format for one pocket

[BRLongArm]

This year I have expanded my interest in tournament play, supporting events other than just Buffalos. I wanted to share with you what I have learned over the year:

1. Room owners want bodies, and most people would rather play than watch. So called "David v. Goliath" formats work best to guarantee a large number of bodies that will buy food and drink and play pool. The low entry fee also allows rotation players to compete, and will help grow the pro side of the game.
2. One pocket fans like to play against the pros, and $200-$250 is about the sweet spot to entice dead money into the event. Anything more is too much.
3. Pro events will be rare and limited to 16-24. At this time, only Scotty Townsend and Buffalos are hi entry, pro only events. Others have tried and failed due to low turnout.
4. Nobody is doing a great job at getting sponsors. I think they are out there, but it takes a special personality to reach them.
5. We now have many $7,000-$10,000 added events and we who love one pocket should support them. They are:
Derby City Classic-Indiana, Scotty Townsend Memorial-Louisiana, Southeastern Triple Crown-Florida, Midwest Open-Ohio, US Open-Nevada, Big Tyme Classic-Texas, Buffalos Pro Classic-Louisiana, Skinny Bob's One Pocket Classic-Texas, Hard Times Classic-California.
6. We will need 2-3 years to build up the next generation of one pocket players that will compete in hi entry pro events. Last year, we saw Louis Demarco, John Morra, Devin Poteet and Justin Cone. This year, Fedor Gorst, Roland Garcia and Carlo Biado will be added to the list. We will need a few more to replace Cliff Joyner, Jeremy Jones, Efren Reyes, Joey Gray, Danny Smith, Francisco Bustamante, and others who have slowed down or stopped competing with the pros.

For now, the David v. Goliath formats will be the norm, and many of us that like to play in those formats will be happy. This format is a necessary bridge to get the next generation of players confident enough in their games that they can move up and challenge for their place in One Pocket royalty.

 

[mhilton777]

Great observations Joe and we did discuss this a little when I saw you a couple of weeks ago. You are doing some great things for the game and it is encouraging to see people like yourself step-up to the challenge!

 

[crabbcatjohn]

I think Buffalos would be a great place for a fall pro am like the recent Midwest ..

 

[beatle]

instead look at poker tournaments. they are huge. you know why. its because every player thinks or does have some kind of chance to win or at least get in the money. and the prize pools dwarf anything even close to the biggest pool ones. even the smaller tournaments dwarf the large pool tournaments. just because people figure they have a chance.

as long as pool tournaments are un balanced with the top players taking all the purse money there is no way for it to grow.

 

[BRLongArm]

Great observations Joe and we did discuss this a little when I saw you a couple of weeks ago. You are doing some great things for the game and it is encouraging to see people like yourself step-up to the challenge!

Too much work for another tournament. He would rather host a gambling match, which brings what he wants but is much cheaper to host.

 

[Island Drive]

instead look at poker tournaments. they are huge. you know why. its because every player thinks or does have some kind of chance to win or at least get in the money. and the prize pools dwarf anything even close to the biggest pool ones. even the smaller tournaments dwarf the large pool tournaments. just because people figure they have a chance.

as long as pool tournaments are un balanced with the top players taking all the purse money there is no way for it to grow.

Short races allow upsets against pros.... 2 outta 3. One pkt.

 

[BRLongArm]

Short races allow upsets against pros.... 2 outta 3. One pkt.

Poker has an element of luck that draws dead money. No such element in one pocket. Short races and cheap entries will get the larger fields. The answer of course is more added money from sponsors. Cannabis, crypto currency and gambling are the most likely sponsors that need to be courted. Predator tour has landed Alpha Crypto, UFC has Crypto as a major sponsor, and some of the states that allow recreational marijuana have some dispensaries as their sponsors. Snooker is nearly exclusively sponsored by the British sports books.

 

[cincy_kid]

Poker has an element of luck that draws dead money. No such element in one pocket. Short races and cheap entries will get the larger fields. The answer of course is more added money from sponsors. Cannabis, crypto currency and gambling are the most likely sponsors that need to be courted. Predator tour has landed Alpha Crypto, UFC has Crypto as a major sponsor, and some of the states that allow recreational marijuana have some dispensaries as their sponsors. Snooker is nearly exclusively sponsored by the British sports books.

Crypto is for sure hot... those who have not invested in any yourself, should probably look into it!

We have several wallets and my wife is super into it, building up a nice NFT collection for our retirement! (I hope )

 

[beatle]

pool has steadily gone downhill for a long time with the current thinking of how to manage it for profit. and it will continue with that thinking.

 

[B_White]

This year I have expanded my interest in tournament play, supporting events other than just Buffalos. I wanted to share with you what I have learned over the year:

1. Room owners want bodies, and most people would rather play than watch. So called "David v. Goliath" formats work best to guarantee a large number of bodies that will buy food and drink and play pool. The low entry fee also allows rotation players to compete, and will help grow the pro side of the game.
2. One pocket fans like to play against the pros, and $200-$250 is about the sweet spot to entice dead money into the event. Anything more is too much.
3. Pro events will be rare and limited to 16-24. At this time, only Scotty Townsend and Buffalos are hi entry, pro only events. Others have tried and failed due to low turnout.
4. Nobody is doing a great job at getting sponsors. I think they are out there, but it takes a special personality to reach them.
5. We now have many $7,000-$10,000 added events and we who love one pocket should support them. They are:
Derby City Classic-Indiana, Scotty Townsend Memorial-Louisiana, Southeastern Triple Crown-Florida, Midwest Open-Ohio, US Open-Nevada, Big Tyme Classic-Texas, Buffalos Pro Classic-Louisiana, Skinny Bob's One Pocket Classic-Texas, Hard Times Classic-California.
6. We will need 2-3 years to build up the next generation of one pocket players that will compete in hi entry pro events. Last year, we saw Louis Demarco, John Morra, Devin Poteet and Justin Cone. This year, Fedor Gorst, Roland Garcia and Carlo Biado will be added to the list. We will need a few more to replace Cliff Joyner, Jeremy Jones, Efren Reyes, Joey Gray, Danny Smith, Francisco Bustamante, and others who have slowed down or stopped competing with the pros.

For now, the David v. Goliath formats will be the norm, and many of us that like to play in those formats will be happy. This format is a necessary bridge to get the next generation of players confident enough in their games that they can move up and challenge for their place in One Pocket royalty.

Some people suggest that similar to the mini tours in golf that the players supply the prize fund. For example maybe a $2500 entry fee with 100 players would be $250,000 prize pool. Unfortunately in one pocket there are not that many players that are going to pay that kind of money. I think a better option is maybe $200 entry fee if you were looking for a lot of players.

 

[NH Steve]

Crypto is for sure hot... those who have not invested in any yourself, should probably look into it!

We have several wallets and my wife is super into it, building up a nice NFT collection for our retirement! (I hope )

Hopefully they do not go the Dutch tulip route lol.

 

[NH Steve]

Great thoughts Joe, and a good assessment. Yes, it seems now a pretty nice field of tournaments has been developing -- partly of course because of people like you putting in support!

I do worry about pool in general, but at least with One Pocket, we are the diehards for sure! I mean -- pool players might quit, retire or die, but no 9-ball players are ever going to be fresh new converts drawn away from One Pocket, whereas the opposite is going to continue to be true!

 

[NH Steve]

Handicaps of course can give weaker players "equal" opportunity to win -- but they have so many issues for tournaments, both practical and stigmatic,m that they could kill them, not help them lol. Staggered entry fees may be one thing that could help broaden the "dead money" tournament player support. I have one idea I want to run past you Joe.

 

[darmoose]

No better opportunity for developing a workable handicap system than within a group like OP.org where virtually all the players are a known quantity. If you recognize that handicaps (like in golf) could be used to promote more competition amongst varied skilled levels of players, and that is a good thing, perhaps developing such a system, tweeking it and promoting it could be the most important contribution a group like this could make to the growth of OP.

I remember when I was playing golf somewhat religiously for over 35 years, the only question asked when two players were trying to make a game was "what's your handicap?" In general pool that's what the fargo rating is all about. We have an opportunity to do the same with our MOT's, but the usual argument against handicapping that has always carried the day is made by the upper echelon of players, and is handicaps are not needed or too cumbersome or unworkable. I wonder why that is........ ....

 

[BRLongArm]

One pocket is a gambling game. The players will match up on their own. We don't need to fix something that isn't broken. Tournaments need to be cheap enough to get in, short enough to upset a pro. Trying to make a fair and workable handicap system is, in my opinion, a fool's errand. Many have tried, and none, to my knowledge have made a handicap system that works long term.

 

[BRLongArm]

I am bullish on one pocket's future. After twenty years of trying hi entry, 16 man fields, the promoters have settled on a format that works. $200-$250 entry fee, race to three or four, double elimination. This allows the fans to play their favorite pros, gets the bodies the room owner needs, the shortstops get plenty of play for their entry fee and the format gives plenty of content for the streamers. In the end, the pros end up in the money, and the added money has gone from $5000 added to $7-10,000 added, about 35-1 return on their money. Most importantly, the low entry gives the rotation players the excuse to play one pocket. And we know what happens once they get past the initial trepidation. "There ain't no cure!"

 

[Miller]

I am bullish on one pocket's future. After twenty years of trying hi entry, 16 man fields, the promoters have settled on a format that works. $200-$250 entry fee, race to three or four, double elimination. This allows the fans to play their favorite pros, gets the bodies the room owner needs, the shortstops get plenty of play for their entry fee and the format gives plenty of content for the streamers. In the end, the pros end up in the money, and the added money has gone from $5000 added to $7-10,000 added, about 35-1 return on their money. Most importantly, the low entry gives the rotation players the excuse to play one pocket. And we know what happens once they get past the initial trepidation. "There ain't no cure!"

joe - i know you are involved behind the scenes and add money/sponsor many events. as a fan/stream watcher/bracket filler - thank you for that. definitely be cool if there could be more of these - for everyone.

(also nice to see that the few events that there currently are got on the same page with scheduling - i've always been amazed how the last couple years buffalo's and us open essentially cancel one another out....wtf)

my 2 cents......gotta streamline/tweak scheduling of the calcuttas somehow. i know these are integral to generating revenue. at michael's, calcuttas (there was also one for the pro 10 ball) started at 7 and first matches weren't played before 11:30.

 

[sheldon]

Thanks for doing what you do. I hope to someday visit Buffalos.

 

[BRLongArm]

As of today, the US Open has 33 signed up despite the fact that Match Room put the World Pool Championships right on top of the US Open's dates. They expect to get 5-10 more before April 8th. Very pleased with the US Open this year. They have a good number of players, a reputable streaming service, and four events under one roof will make it easy on the players to make some money. They will have plenty of video content for those of us watching and those who make the money will have a nice pay day. One Pocket is looking up in 2022.

 

[BrookelandBilly]

instead look at poker tournaments. they are huge. you know why. its because every player thinks or does have some kind of chance to win or at least get in the money. and the prize pools dwarf anything even close to the biggest pool ones. even the smaller tournaments dwarf the large pool tournaments. just because people figure they have a chance.

as long as pool tournaments are un balanced with the top players taking all the purse money there is no way for it to grow.

I agree but also think that young players today don’t have the patience to play one pocket when they can play nine ball and eight ball in a matter of minutes. They don’t have the attention span to play a game that can go on for an hour or more at times. They want it now.