Best format for one pocket

[RabbiHippie]

joe - i know you are involved behind the scenes and add money/sponsor many events. as a fan/stream watcher/bracket filler - thank you for that. definitely be cool if there could be more of these - for everyone.

(also nice to see that the few events that there currently are got on the same page with scheduling - i've always been amazed how the last couple years buffalo's and us open essentially cancel one another out....wtf)

my 2 cents......gotta streamline/tweak scheduling of the calcuttas somehow. i know these are integral to generating revenue. at michael's, calcuttas (there was also one for the pro 10 ball) started at 7 and first matches weren't played before 11:30.

I misread "streaming" for "streamline" but that actually leads to a brilliant marketing idea ...

Consider the NBA Draft and how it's been turned into an entertaining spectacle that's televised to a large audience and generates a lot of excitement over what used to be something pretty dull. The calcutta numbers at Buffalo's got people's attention more than anything else. Turning calcuttas into big events in their own right by adding a little theatricality and streaming online with high production values would draw an audience and pay huge dividends for the tournament and the game in the long run.

 

[beatle]

any untaxed gambling that gets big attention will attract the authorities to find a way to shut it down.

if they dont it will get held up, especially down south.

social gambling even if legal needs to be kept on the quiet from the public.

 

[chicagomike]

This year I have expanded my interest in tournament play, supporting events other than just Buffalos. I wanted to share with you what I have learned over the year:

1. Room owners want bodies, and most people would rather play than watch. So called "David v. Goliath" formats work best to guarantee a large number of bodies that will buy food and drink and play pool. The low entry fee also allows rotation players to compete, and will help grow the pro side of the game.
2. One pocket fans like to play against the pros, and $200-$250 is about the sweet spot to entice dead money into the event. Anything more is too much.
3. Pro events will be rare and limited to 16-24. At this time, only Scotty Townsend and Buffalos are hi entry, pro only events. Others have tried and failed due to low turnout.
4. Nobody is doing a great job at getting sponsors. I think they are out there, but it takes a special personality to reach them.
5. We now have many $7,000-$10,000 added events and we who love one pocket should support them. They are:
Derby City Classic-Indiana, Scotty Townsend Memorial-Louisiana, Southeastern Triple Crown-Florida, Midwest Open-Ohio, US Open-Nevada, Big Tyme Classic-Texas, Buffalos Pro Classic-Louisiana, Skinny Bob's One Pocket Classic-Texas, Hard Times Classic-California.
6. We will need 2-3 years to build up the next generation of one pocket players that will compete in hi entry pro events. Last year, we saw Louis Demarco, John Morra, Devin Poteet and Justin Cone. This year, Fedor Gorst, Roland Garcia and Carlo Biado will be added to the list. We will need a few more to replace Cliff Joyner, Jeremy Jones, Efren Reyes, Joey Gray, Danny Smith, Francisco Bustamante, and others who have slowed down or stopped competing with the pros.

For now, the David v. Goliath formats will be the norm, and many of us that like to play in those formats will be happy. This format is a necessary bridge to get the next generation of players confident enough in their games that they can move up and challenge for their place in One Pocket royalty.

I think you’re spot on…$200-$250 is a pretty accurate sweet spot for short stops and enthusiasts to get a crack at the pros. Seems pros are attracted when the added money is in the $10,000 and above range. Do you think that’s accurate? What in your estimate really attracts pros to an event? Is it the venue? The amount of players? The added money? All the above? What’s the number one reason a pro will attend. I’m asking in pure curiosity as I don’t really know.

 

[RabbiHippie]

any untaxed gambling that gets big attention will attract the authorities to find a way to shut it down.

if they dont it will get held up, especially down south.

social gambling even if legal needs to be kept on the quiet from the public.

You're right, I didn't think that aspect through. I actually thought that televising the auction was a creative new idea being suggested by the previous poster until I realized I had misread "streaming" in his post.

It would be a great idea in a different environment for legalized gambling, maybe, like in Las Vegas or in some other countries where online wagering on sport is allowed. Anyway, I think something like that would draw an audience. I know I've enjoyed seeing the classic car auctions on TV even though I'm no car buff.

Certainly don't want to knock the sweators' action. ;-)

 

[NH Steve]

any untaxed gambling that gets big attention will attract the authorities to find a way to shut it down.

if they dont it will get held up, especially down south.

social gambling even if legal needs to be kept on the quiet from the public.

That's one of the double edged swords in growing the action angle of pool -- it definitely attracts great interest, but unfortunately some of that interest historically has been of the authorities kind lol -- just look at Johnston City, 1972!

 

[RabbiHippie]

That's one of the double edged swords in growing the action angle of pool -- it definitely attracts great interest, but unfortunately some of that interest historically has been of the authorities kind lol -- just look at Johnston City, 1972!

Johnston City was televised on ABC and drew too much attention, I guess, so point well taken. Reminds me of the Challenge of Champions debacle too when pool finally got some higher profile coverage on ESPN. I guess pool will always be an undercover game. Even snooker with its bigger BBC audiences and more accepted legal gambling has some ugly scandals with players fixing matches and getting banned a la Pete Rose.

 

[cincy_kid]

Johnston City was televised on ABC and drew too much attention, I guess, so point well taken. Reminds me of the Challenge of Champions debacle too when pool finally got some higher profile coverage on ESPN. I guess pool will always be an undercover game. Even snooker with its bigger BBC audiences and more accepted legal gambling has some ugly scandals with players fixing matches and getting banned a la Pete Rose.

Still can't believe he is not in the HOF....one of the best players who played from Cincinnati for sure...

 

[beatle]

he was caught betting on teams in the game so that was a good reason for the lifetime ban. along with some other worse things done.
some bookies have a big mouth. if i ever meet you ill tell you some stuff that will make your eyes pop out.

 

[BRLongArm]

I think you’re spot on…$200-$250 is a pretty accurate sweet spot for short stops and enthusiasts to get a crack at the pros. Seems pros are attracted when the added money is in the $10,000 and above range. Do you think that’s accurate? What in your estimate really attracts pros to an event? Is it the venue? The amount of players? The added money? All the above? What’s the number one reason a pro will attend. I’m asking in pure curiosity as I don’t really know.

added money and action. If they don't cash in the tournament, a side game that pays the bills makes them happy. This is why Big Dog Classic is dying. It's in Iowa, no action. Hard to get to, no way to make money. Can't even get a 16 man field. Conversely, Scotty Townsend is well attended. 9 Ball, one pocket, 10 ball and action. Huge calcuttas, lots of money in the place. Action every night.

 

[RabbiHippie]

he was caught betting on teams in the game so that was a good reason for the lifetime ban. along with some other worse things done.
some bookies have a big mouth. if i ever meet you ill tell you some stuff that will make your eyes pop out.

The snooker player I was thinking of but couldn't place off-hand was Stephen Lee who was banned for 12-years for match fixing. But apparently it's a common enough occurrence that there's an entire Wikipedia article devoted to the subject.

List of snooker players investigated for match-fixing

Makes you stop and think when guys are willing to risk legitimate six- and seven-figure incomes over this.

 

[MattRosendaul]

Great observations. I have a few thoughts in no particular order...

1. Lower entry fees and the "David vs. Goliath" format works to draw players in when the entry is $250 or less and the tournament is fast enough that players don't have to spend too much time away and in a location where hotels aren't $250+ per night.
2. Hosting a tournament in a pool room is really tough because all the money is made on the weekend from open play. The best format we found was to hold a big tournament at a local convention space and keep the pool room open for action and spectators as well as regular customers. The few thousand bucks made during a tournament weekend is just more work for the same few thousand bucks that the room would make anyway.
3. The tournament promoter needs to capitalize on every available revenue stream by selling shirts, programs, booth rental for select vendors, concessions, pro-shop sales, raffles, etc.
4. Sponsors are always going to be hard to find except in-industry nickle and dime support. Every little bit helps, but when all you get is donations of cues and cloth, it makes it tough to add cash. Talk to the local convention and visitors bureau and see what local money might be available for bringing events to the city. They can also help negotiate discounts at hotels and other venues.
5. One of the big problems with pool is the lack of quality rooms to play in. Proprietors need to cultivate a clientele of players young and old who love the game. A big part of that is not being a "den of ill repute", 21 and over only. They need to be diligent about professional level instruction and encourage leagues and tournament play.
6. Regardless how high the entry fee is, you can always arrange a couple "qualifier" tournaments at other pool rooms. The promoter can just hold a guaranteed spot on the entry list for a representative from XYZ Billiards. The person who wins that pool room qualifier gets not only his entry fee paid from his winnings, but also a few hundred bucks walking money.
7. Calcutta's can't be allowed to cut into the tournament play time. They can be sped up by pooling B and C rated players into lots of 2 or more players for one bid price. Tournament promoters also need to be careful of the laws regarding calcutta auctions and raffles in general. In most states, they would be considered a game of chance and therefore illegal and subject to some hefty fines unless officially licensed to hold such events. If a room has a liquor license, it can get even riskier.

Just a few thoughts on a cold Saturday.

Matt

 

[NH Steve]

Great observations. I have a few thoughts in no particular order...

1. Lower entry fees and the "David vs. Goliath" format works to draw players in when the entry is $250 or less and the tournament is fast enough that players don't have to spend too much time away and in a location where hotels aren't $250+ per night.
2. Hosting a tournament in a pool room is really tough because all the money is made on the weekend from open play. The best format we found was to hold a big tournament at a local convention space and keep the pool room open for action and spectators as well as regular customers. The few thousand bucks made during a tournament weekend is just more work for the same few thousand bucks that the room would make anyway.
3. The tournament promoter needs to capitalize on every available revenue stream by selling shirts, programs, booth rental for select vendors, concessions, pro-shop sales, raffles, etc.
4. Sponsors are always going to be hard to find except in-industry nickle and dime support. Every little bit helps, but when all you get is donations of cues and cloth, it makes it tough to add cash. Talk to the local convention and visitors bureau and see what local money might be available for bringing events to the city. They can also help negotiate discounts at hotels and other venues.
5. One of the big problems with pool is the lack of quality rooms to play in. Proprietors need to cultivate a clientele of players young and old who love the game. A big part of that is not being a "den of ill repute", 21 and over only. They need to be diligent about professional level instruction and encourage leagues and tournament play.
6. Regardless how high the entry fee is, you can always arrange a couple "qualifier" tournaments at other pool rooms. The promoter can just hold a guaranteed spot on the entry list for a representative from XYZ Billiards. The person who wins that pool room qualifier gets not only his entry fee paid from his winnings, but also a few hundred bucks walking money.
7. Calcutta's can't be allowed to cut into the tournament play time. They can be sped up by pooling B and C rated players into lots of 2 or more players for one bid price. Tournament promoters also need to be careful of the laws regarding calcutta auctions and raffles in general. In most states, they would be considered a game of chance and therefore illegal and subject to some hefty fines unless officially licensed to hold such events. If a room has a liquor license, it can get even riskier.

Just a few thoughts on a cold Saturday.

Matt

Fantastic advice from an experienced promoter!!