Calling a foul

[treeMan]

I don't have a side in this - i.e. if I didn't see you foul, and you choose to not mention it, it's my bad, and I won't fault you for not saying anything.

But Dennis, your logic for justifying it is completely flawed. You say:

You just won't ever walk up to the table and put a ball on the spot for a reason that I am unaware of.
Dennis

If I commit a foul, and the spotted ball would be to my advantage, there is no way you are going to prevent me from spotting the ball I owe. And you better not say "I didn't see it". You should have been paying attention.

tree

 

[wincardona]

I have been playing pool in and around tournaments for over 50 years, and I can count on the fingers on my right hand how many times a player has called a foul on himself. 50 years, what does that tell you? Probably a bunch of stuff. It tells me that if you want to compete and give yourself a chance that you deserve you should play the same way 99% of all the other players play. It's socially accepted any more, sorry B.S. I know you want to throw up. Don't get mad at the player, get mad at the game.

I kinda like the way Cowboy feels, do unto others as they do unto you.

But until then Do what you gotta do, but do it within the rules you play by.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

Well John and Artie, we've been called dishonest, having no integrity, untrustworthy, cheaters, undignified, unethical, using semantics, illogical and, last but not least, now we are being called thieves. If I didn't know better I might start to feel bad about myself .

Cowboy "dishonest, no integrity, untrustworthy, cheater, undignified, illogical, thief" Dennis

That's some funny shit.

Billy I.-< Another bad guy

 

[wincardona]

Is that right Roy? It seems to me the last time you and John B. got together you called the Tournament Director over to help you weasel your way out of your "foul".http://onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2480.

Dennis

If you were in a prize fight the ref would take a point away from you for HITTING BELOW THE BELT.

Billy I.

 

[CaliRed]

That's some funny shit.

Billy I.-< Another bad guy

I heard someone say one time, that as long as they've known you, they've never ever heard you swear. After hearing that, I guess in the back of my mind something just sits there and unconsciously logs every post or conversation that I hear from you, and alerts me when I see a cussword.

This is the first time my logger went off in my head

Is that true, are you a man that very seldom cusses, or was this person just not in the cussing zone most of the time?

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I don't have a side in this - i.e. if I didn't see you foul, and you choose to not mention it, it's my bad, and I won't fault you for not saying anything.

But Dennis, your logic for justifying it is completely flawed. You say:



If I commit a foul, and the spotted ball would be to my advantage, there is no way you are going to prevent me from spotting the ball I owe. And you better not say "I didn't see it". You should have been paying attention.

tree

treeMan,

I would never pull a move by seeing you foul but saying I didn't see it if that's what you're implying. I don't play like that. I watch an opponent intensely when he's at the table and me not seeing a foul & calling it would happen about as often as you've seen Halley's Comet.

It's a moot point now but since you brought it up I'll respond: If I am doing my usual intense watching of your inning at the table and I see you shoot and I see no foul occur but you say you did foul, I guarantee you that will not be putting a ball up on the spot.

I watch intently for anything that may happen when I'm in the chair. I rarely speak to anybody when I'm playing, I don't smoke, cellphone is off, and people know to leave me alone if I'm gambling. Nobody talks to me when I'm betting anything halfway serious. In short, I do my full job to a f@@king tee when I am in the chair and I expect others to do it also. That is the whole point of this threads topic question.

As I've said before, this applies to people I don't know, unscrupulous players, or in a serious gambling match. At other times I relax my standards with close acquaintances or longtime gambling partners who are honest and respectful.

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

If you were in a prize fight the ref would take a point away from you for HITTING BELOW THE BELT.

Billy I.

Bill,

In his next post he wrote this to John B.

I'm sorry, John, but I'm a bit dissapointed if you are saying you won't call a foul on yourself.

If we play, and I touch two balls and foul and you don't see it, I will call it, even if it gives you a straight in shot to finish the match.

I would feel bad for a long time if I won knowing that I didn't call foul on myself.

I think he's a hypocritical liar. He used the T.D. and any rule he could think of to weasel out of his mistake and when that didn't work he went to the All-Zaniness site and then came here to garner sympathy for his cause. The most surprising thing was how many people agreed with him. He acted like he was taken advantage of by the "player" just the way weak players always do. You can always tell the suckers from the others, they're the ones blaming the "player" for his actions.

P.S. I only hit below the belt when the ref isn't looking .

Dennis

 

[lll]

It's a moot point now but since you brought it up I'll respond: If I am doing my usual intense watching of your inning at the table and I see you shoot and I see no foul occur but you say you did foul, I guarantee you that will not be putting a ball up on the spot.

dennis point is he wont let someone say they fouled if they didnt to gain an advantage
is that right dennis??
if so
couldnt you be saying you didnt see it so YOU have the advantage???
just askin
no aspersions intended

 

[androd]

dennis point is he wont let someone say they fouled if they didnt to gain an advantage
is that right dennis??
if so
couldnt you be saying you didnt see it so YOU have the advantage???
just askin
no aspersions intended

Larry, That's rude !

 

[lll]

Larry, That's rude !

Rod, i meant no disrespect . dennis knows that
his point of not letting someone call a foul he didnt see is understandable
especially since dennis knows his own integrity but not that of his opponent
maybe it would have been better to not make it personable
and rhetorical

do you like it put this way better???


if you dont let your opponent call their own foul unless you see it couldnt someone "pretend "to not see it to THEIR advantage???

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Rod, i meant no disrespect . dennis knows that
his point of not letting someone call a foul he didnt see is understandable
especially since dennis knows his own integrity but not that of his opponent
maybe it would have been better to not make it personable
and rhetorical

do you like it put this way better???


if you dont let your opponent call their own foul unless you see it couldnt someone "pretend "to not see it to THEIR advantage???

Dont look for someone too clean up your mistake. Thier is no integraty in helping stupitity.

Or what would you call it someone sleeping your scratch. Or not seeing it.

Since some off you people are putting all the blame on the shooter. What would you say to the person that didnt see it.

Lets talk about the other person. What is he. Should he get rewarded for not doing what he is suppose too do. Lets talk about the opther player.

You have made the shooter guilty without breacking a rule. I would like too her about the other player.

That fell asleep at the wheel. Go ahead and clean it up for the player that was in another world.

When he should have been paying attention too the game.

what is he tier for charity.

Or maybe the shooter should be nice and tell him what too shoot too.

If you dont do whais youre responsability.

INTEGRATY IS NOT THE QOUISTION.THE QOUISTION IS WHAT WAS HE DOING THAT HE DIDNT SEE IT?

AND whos responsability is it too call the foul????????

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Larry, That's rude !

Oh Rod, it would only be rude if I didn't write in the post he quoted that I would never pull a move like that. Oh wait, I did write just that in the first sentence. Larry, that's rude .

treeMan,

I would never pull a move by seeing you foul but saying I didn't see it if that's what you're implying. I don't play like that. I watch an opponent intensely when he's at the table and me not seeing a foul & calling it would happen about as often as you've seen Halley's Comet.

Dennis

Rod, i meant no disrespect . dennis knows that
his point of not letting someone call a foul he didnt see is understandable
especially since dennis knows his own integrity but not that of his opponent
maybe it would have been better to not make it personable
and rhetorical

do you like it put this way better???


if you dont let your opponent call their own foul unless you see it couldnt someone "pretend "to not see it to THEIR advantage???

Larry,

Did you find the key to the wine cellar again? That would be a valid question with no aspersions cast at all if I hadn't already answered it in the very post you quoted, in the first sentence no less. No harm, no foul.

Dennis

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Oh Rod, it would only be rude if I didn't write in the post he quoted that I would never pull a move like that. Oh wait, I did write just that in the first sentence. Larry, that's rude .



Larry,

Did you find the key to the wine cellar again? That would be a valid question with no aspersions cast at all if I hadn't already answered it in the very post you quoted, in the first sentence no less. No harm, no foul.

Dennis

If I dont see it. Then I desirve the consequences.

I do not need you to tell me your mistakes.

And give yourself up.It would make me feel like a fool.

Not that your a nice guy. By telling me something that I should have seen.

That will help you too loose.

If I dont see it and you get away with it yiou deserve it.

And if you would tell on yourself. You will also tellon others.

You no what people call that person. RAT.

 

[BillPorter]

Great thread

Great thread

I am rarely on this forum these days but followed a link from "that other board." I read every prior post in the thread, including those that clearly missed the point of the original post, and just wanted to thank those of you who provided thoughtful, insightful, interesting, and entertaining posts.

I mostly play One Pocket these days, so the issue is one I have considered myself. I guess I am in the camp of the immoral, unethical, low integrity, low down, dirty, reprehensible guys. Hey, they seem to be more fun to be around.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I am rarely on this forum these days but followed a link from "that other board." I read every prior post in the thread, including those that clearly missed the point of the original post, and just wanted to thank those of you who provided thoughtful, insightful, interesting, and entertaining posts.

I mostly play One Pocket these days, so the issue is one I have considered myself. I guess I am in the camp of the immoral, unethical, low integrity, low down, dirty, reprehensible guys. Hey, they seem to be more fun to be around.

Bill,

This thread should not have gotten past the second post in it. What's amazing is that many of the people who hold all people in this country responsible for their actions, politically, legally and morally also abdicate their own responsibility when they are in the chair watching their opponent shoot. They prefer to cling to TD's, "rules", vague notions of right & wrong and anything else they can use to justify their own laziness & stupidity.

P.S. Welcome to the dark side of the immoral minority.

Dennis

 

[shootingarts]

make me the ref and I'll act like one

make me the ref and I'll act like one

Have to admit I read the first few pages and the last one so I have missed most of this thread. However there are good and simple reasons I believe in each player calling his own fouls. First, he is in the best position to know he fouled. However there is another and more important reason. I prefer to not interfere with my opponent when he is shooting and him not interfere with me. However if there is no ref and the other player doesn't call his own fouls that has put me in the position of being the ref.

That means when he is shooting and all I can see from my chair is his butt I am not only entitled but obligated to get up and stand where I can see the shot even if it is on top of him or directly in front of him. I will behave exactly as a good referee should and that sometimes means getting very close to the player trying to shoot or standing directly in his line of sight. Don't call it sharking when I jump up to see a shot when it is my responsibility to do so either.

I prefer to sit very still in my chair or stay out of the other player's line of vision when I'm not at the table. However when the player insists I function as a referee I will do just that. Far more pleasant to play a gentleman's game but I generally play however the other person prefers to play.

Hu

 

[BillPorter]

Bill,

This thread should not have gotten past the second post in it.

Dennis

I agree. The original post clearly restricted the question to situations where a ball does not hit a rail. Period.

I was a bit irritated at posts which called John Brumback's integrity into question. I have known John since he was a teenager and know no one in the world of pool who would rate ahead of him on integrity. I've known Billy Stroud even longer and give him high marks for integrity as well. But as you and others have eloquently pointed out, integrity isn't really the issue.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Far more pleasant to play a gentleman's game but I generally play however the other person prefers to play.

Hu

It's not un-gentlemanly to ask you to pay attention when I'm shooting, it is un-gentlemanly to suggest otherwise.

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I was a bit irritated at posts which called John Brumback's integrity into question. I have known John since he was a teenager and know no one in the world of pool who would rate ahead of him on integrity. I've known Billy Stroud even longer and give him high marks for integrity as well. But as you and others have eloquently pointed out, integrity isn't really the issue.

Bill,

JB's integrity or anyone elses does not need to be backed up or questioned by anyone. The simple truth is that if the person in the chair did his job none of this would come up. Whether JB or I were dishonest or lacking integrity would not matter if the person in the chair fulfilled his duty.

Dennis

 

[shootingarts]

figured somebody would quibble about the wording

figured somebody would quibble about the wording

It's not un-gentlemanly to ask you to pay attention when I'm shooting, it is un-gentlemanly to suggest otherwise.

Dennis

Dennis,

The way you play a game won't make you a gentleman even if you call fouls on yourself for the next hundred years. That is true of both you and I. Never-the-less it is still refered to as the gentleman's game as we both know. When I'm in the mood to have some fun with someone I don't really care for I prefer to play the other way.

I can make life a living hell for somebody trying to call fouls on me. By the time they get all wrapped up in the fouls they think I might be trying to hide they are too focused on that to play pool. It doesn't take much, a perfectly legal shot and then jerking my head to where they are sitting in their chair to see if they were watching. Deliberately selecting shots that they can't see from their chair when better shots are available. The occasional sudden expletive when I shoot and then continuing on with routine shooting. I haven't fouled a single time nor have I sharked the other player while he was shooting. However I have him so far out of his game that he couldn't make a ball in the ocean.

I have taken this path maybe a few dozen times over the years when someone doesn't call their own fouls and denies the fouls I see. The results have always been the same. A player pissed off out of his mind about all of the fouls I am making and denying when in reality I haven't committed a single foul. I can't recall anyone ever beating me when I did this.

I never said I was a gentleman, just that I prefered to play a gentleman's game.

Hu