today i had this situation come up. i needed 6 balls and my opponent needed only 2 balls. one of my options was to roll in the 15 ball and leave the cue ball in the jaws of the top pocket. this would put the 15 back in play for me but my opponent is a very good banker and this would leave a bank on the 5 ball. from a stragety standpoint was it correct for me to pocket the 15 and leave the bank or was there a better move. Sappo[CUETABLE][/http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAJ3Qcxs@CUETABLE] i hope this works on the wei.
Correct Stragety ????
- Thread starter sappo
- Start date
One Pocket Ghost
Verified Member
sappo......I think I can get your table up for you >>>
- Ghost
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs@CUETABLE@[/CUETABLE]
- Ghost
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs@CUETABLE@[/CUETABLE]
vapros
Verified Member
Shoot the 15 gently, rail first. Leave him frozen on the short rail, and maybe even up against the 14. I don't think he will bank the 5 ball. Jacked up, he can sell out the 4 and 9 if he doesn't hit it exactly right, or even scratch in the side. He needs two and he won't take this risk to get just one. You've got a chance to make up some ground here. 
One Pocket Ghost
Verified Member
Doesn't look to me like the 5ball has room to be banked.
iusedtoberich
Verified Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2004
- Messages
- 146
I dont see any value in making the 15 and leaving the cueball by the pocket. THe opponent will just bank the spotted 15 ball back uptable, and possible into some of the balls by your side pocket, to send those balls further uptable.
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
sappo said:
sappo,
You can't hit the 3 or 13. You don't want to move the 9, 5, or 4. You are not going to shoot the the 14. The 15 wins by default. With the 15 on the spot and the 9,5,4, on your side, I don't think anybody would bank at the 5 ball, assuming it does go cross-corner.
This situation comes up all of the time in one-pocket and you just have to roll the 15 in and spot it up and let him shoot. That's the price you pay for being down 6-2.
You are not out of this game by a long shot. If he makes one mistake you might make a ball and get behind the 9,5,4. If he tries to shoot away the ball on the spot he has to guard against leaving you the three-railer on the 3 ball.
Dennis
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs1jYnR1jalq1jchv4kDAI1kXxD1kUfl1kTYf@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1Ochv1PTYf3Qcxs@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi4OALW1PTYf3Qcxs1qPrxNOW_IT'S_HIS_SHOT._PEOPLE_HAVE_MADE_MISTAKES_FROM_HERE_BEFORE.&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]
One pocket Smitty
Verified Member
I might even try something like this. As others havw said he is not going to try a bank for fear of selling out a few balls. This give you another ball to bank if he leaves you down by the end rail. I would not put the 15 into play because that is just another ball you have to worry about leaving him a shot on.---Smitty[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs1iOSi1iFKx4kDAI1kPhh1kQfq1kcvS@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs1jYnR1jalq1jchv4kDAI1kXxD1kUfl1kTYf@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1Ochv1PTYf3Qcxs@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi4OALW1PTYf3Qcxs1qPrxNOW_IT'S_HIS_SHOT._PEOPLE_HAVE_MADE_MISTAKES_FROM_HERE_BEFORE.&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]
NH Steve
Administrator
I don't think it would be bad at all to make the 15. But I believe I would pocket it rail first, so as to naturally slide the cue ball over tighter to the 14-ball. That could be much more worthwhile if you happened to get a hook on the 15. It could leave one of those ultra thin cuts on the ball that spots up, but I still like the shot, because it is tough for your opponent to take yet more balls out of play from there. Also, getting the cue ball over by that first diamond makes it tougher for your opponent to bank the ball back to his own side, because it is almost a natural scratch angle from that first diamond location.
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs1jYnR1jbCq1jbCq4kDAI1kbaS1kYWD1kQvl@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi4OADY1PQvj3Qcxs@[/CUETABLE]
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs1jYnR1jbCq1jbCq4kDAI1kbaS1kYWD1kQvl@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi4OADY1PQvj3Qcxs@[/CUETABLE]
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Skin
Verified Member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 2,295
NH Steve said:
I like this shot and the reasoning, also. I think you have to protect against him rearranging/clustering those 3 balls by the side pocket that favor you. He can still get safe coming thin off the 14 without even worrying about the 15, but he might leave a you a way to get a ball close to your hole so you can keep him off those 3 balls until you can get them. I think those balls are the key if you're going to win from here.
Skin < just MHO
jtompilot
Verified Member
Skin said:
A back cut on the 15 isnt a bad shot from the diamond by the 14. I would try to leave the cue on the point.
first thanks Ghost for getting the wei table up i was really frustrated last night. you are truely a "friendly, little ghost". what i did here was to pocket the 15 ball and the cue ball laid against the top rail. i know my opponent is very aggressive and i was sure he would bank the 5 ball which he missed. he left it just above his pocket and i crossed it over, then i banked the 14 ball , then cut the 9 ball in and then i hung up the 4 ball which he had to give me. this put me ahead 7 to 6 and many innings later i got my 8th ball. it turned out to be a good decision. i would still like to hear from anyone else if you think there was a smarter play considering the score and the layout of the balls. HAPPY NEW YEAR to all and my we all continue to frustrate our opponents with the best moves available. Sappo
One Pocket Ghost
Verified Member
sappo said:
Sappo......You're lucky that you were playing someone who doesn't choose the right shot and didn't play the score like he was supposed to...and he rightfully got punished for it.
- Ghost
wincardona
Verified Member
sappo said:first thanks Ghost for getting the wei table up i was really frustrated last night. you are truely a "friendly, little ghost". what i did here was to pocket the 15 ball and the cue ball laid against the top rail. i know my opponent is very aggressive and i was sure he would bank the 5 ball which he missed. he left it just above his pocket and i crossed it over, then i banked the 14 ball , then cut the 9 ball in and then i hung up the 4 ball which he had to give me. this put me ahead 7 to 6 and many innings later i got my 8th ball. it turned out to be a good decision. i would still like to hear from anyone else if you think there was a smarter play considering the score and the layout of the balls. HAPPY NEW YEAR to all and my we all continue to frustrate our opponents with the best moves available.
What did you do with the 15 ball after it was respotted, no mention of that.With the balls that you pocketed, plus the one he gave you now ties the score at six apiece. You must of stolen the 15 ball which is something that one pocket .orgers frown upon. Anyways lets talk about the reason for pocketing the 15 ball and where the best place is to reposition the cue ball and why. I also like shooting the 15 ball and repositioning the cue ball close to the 14 ball on the rail. Your opponent is leading 6 to 2 and he can't afford to let you shoot an offensive shot considering how well the balls are positioned for you. Knowing this you must put him in a position that will not give him the ability to destroy whatever favorable position that you have. You need to position the cue ball close to the cushion and not on the angle that will allow him to congest the balls that are on your side without suffering some sort of penalty. The 3 ball is a ball he can't afford to allow you to shoot, so he must then play timidly on his next shot, which will give you another opportunity to do something productive.
Cowboy Dennis summed it up perfectly in post # 8. That's exactly how it is and it was beautifully described by the Cowboy.
oh well someone has to say this and it might as well be me. shoot the dam 14 bank with high follow and it will go right towards your hole as it isnt a tough bank to at least put close. with the high follow the cue ball is or should hit the 15 and double kiss and stay down near the end of the table. with sometimes getting lucky and having the 15 kick over to your side low on the rail.
this forces him to knock away the ball down by your hole and leave the good balls on your side. g- forbid you make it and with the cue down low pick off a bunch of those hangers.
yes a few times you can screw up and lose or give up another ball but you are a decent dog to win the game here and this is really an okay shot, especially if you arent playing a world beater.
comment on this as i am 100% in the minority.
this forces him to knock away the ball down by your hole and leave the good balls on your side. g- forbid you make it and with the cue down low pick off a bunch of those hangers.
yes a few times you can screw up and lose or give up another ball but you are a decent dog to win the game here and this is really an okay shot, especially if you arent playing a world beater.
comment on this as i am 100% in the minority.
well i will make a bet with you skin. it isnt hard and i will bet you that after a half dozen or so tries you will get it down and will agree with me. then you can use shots like these with more confidence.
the 15 helps keep you from selling out
the 15 helps keep you from selling out
androd
Verified Member
beatle said:
Are you spinning into the 15 ball or drawing into it or what, banking the 14 to your pocket it doesn't seem like you would hit anything.
Rod.
One Pocket Ghost
Verified Member
Pocketing the 15 the only shot here?....no, not quite.
Pocketing the 15 the only shot here?....no, not quite.
Pocketing the 15, so far, has been the consensus/only shot advised/found here, but...
I have been in somewhat similar ball-layout/ball-count situations before...that said, there's an imaginative, aggressive shot available here, that I have shot before and would shoot again here - only if I'm down this far in the ball count...if I was down 5 balls to 3 balls, then I wouldn't shoot it...
Your speed control has to be good to execute it correctly - it may end up as an intentional scratch, or you might graze the ball and rail for a legal hit - either result is ok, obviously the legal safety would be ideal....once again, this is an excellent aggressive shot, if you're down by a lot in the ball count, like 6-0, 6-1, 6-2, 7-1, etc...because if you hit it good, you have an excellent chance of trapping him, leaving NO safety angle available to him, and the balls on the table all favoring you, including the newly spotted ball, if you scratch on the shot - he may then try an iffy safety and sellout...and if he can get there, one type of player will take a return intentional scatch and go 2 or 3 rails to put you back down-table - but that's a victory for you too, because now he needs 3 balls instead of two - a better situation for you...yes, there's some risk to the shot, as in if you hit it bad, but the potential payoff, when being this far back in the ball score, makes it well worth the risk....this is the shot, kick 2 rails, just hard enough for the cueball to end up wedged between the 3ball and the rail >>>
- Ghost
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs4kDAI2kTIo2kcGI2kbHh@CUETABLE@[/CUETABLE]
Pocketing the 15 the only shot here?....no, not quite.
Pocketing the 15, so far, has been the consensus/only shot advised/found here, but...
I have been in somewhat similar ball-layout/ball-count situations before...that said, there's an imaginative, aggressive shot available here, that I have shot before and would shoot again here - only if I'm down this far in the ball count...if I was down 5 balls to 3 balls, then I wouldn't shoot it...
Your speed control has to be good to execute it correctly - it may end up as an intentional scratch, or you might graze the ball and rail for a legal hit - either result is ok, obviously the legal safety would be ideal....once again, this is an excellent aggressive shot, if you're down by a lot in the ball count, like 6-0, 6-1, 6-2, 7-1, etc...because if you hit it good, you have an excellent chance of trapping him, leaving NO safety angle available to him, and the balls on the table all favoring you, including the newly spotted ball, if you scratch on the shot - he may then try an iffy safety and sellout...and if he can get there, one type of player will take a return intentional scatch and go 2 or 3 rails to put you back down-table - but that's a victory for you too, because now he needs 3 balls instead of two - a better situation for you...yes, there's some risk to the shot, as in if you hit it bad, but the potential payoff, when being this far back in the ball score, makes it well worth the risk....this is the shot, kick 2 rails, just hard enough for the cueball to end up wedged between the 3ball and the rail >>>
- Ghost
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AUPG3BQoI2CYLc2DPbX2EYpm4FTqJ4GNmM4HWTK2IUIe4JGTJ4KQgK4LKDK2MXUe1NOSi1OYnR4PDAI3Qcxs4kDAI2kTIo2kcGI2kbHh@CUETABLE@[/CUETABLE]
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