J. Brumback vs. R. Luat 2009 DCC Finals #1

[Cowboy Dennis]

John is up 1-0 in games and 4-3 in this game. It's Luat's shot. What would you do?

P.S. Luat gets'em both.

 

[lll]

here we go

 

[gulfportdoc]

I wish I had the DVD of Brumback vs. Pagulayan from this year's DCC. John annihilated Alex 3-0. In one of the last shots of the match, John had a straight back on the 8 ball, that I was certain couldn't be made. He made it. I told him after the match I'd give him $20 if he told me how he made it, but he said he didn't know HOW he made it!

If someone has it, perhaps they'd "Greenshot" it for us...

It was something like this: John made it in pocket "A". ~Doc
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4Abrp4Bbbs4CaUq4Datt4EbTC1FOgp1GSHX3HWfk1IViE2PXFo2Qcpt@[/CUETABLE]

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I wish I had the DVD of Brumback vs. Pagulayan from this year's DCC. John annihilated Alex 3-0. In one of the last shots of the match, John had a straight back on the 8 ball, that I was certain couldn't be made. He made it. I told him after the match I'd give him $20 if he told me how he made it, but he said he didn't know HOW he made it!

If someone has it, perhaps they'd "Greenshot" it for us...

It was something like this: John made it in pocket "A". ~Doc

Doc,

The 2011 banks & one-pocket have not been released yet.

Dennis

 

[androd]

I wish I had the DVD of Brumback vs. Pagulayan from this year's DCC. John annihilated Alex 3-0. In one of the last shots of the match, John had a straight back on the 8 ball, that I was certain couldn't be made. He made it. I told him after the match I'd give him $20 if he told me how he made it, but he said he didn't know HOW he made it!

If someone has it, perhaps they'd "Greenshot" it for us...

It was something like this: John made it in pocket "A". ~Doc

Doc; Did it look like this ? If so you have to force the CB forward to beat the kiss. Not too hard on the long rails.
Rod.
PS, Much tougher cross corner.

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[NH Steve]

Doc; Did it look like this ? If so you have to force the CB forward to beat the kiss. Not too hard on the long rails.
Rod.
PS, Much tougher cross corner.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4Abrp4Bbbs4CaUq4Datt4EbTC1FOgp1GSHX3HWnk1IViE2PXFo2Qcpt3cWnk3cWKp2cbKi2kXFo3kWWc3kahx@[/CUETABLE]

I remember one of the first things that blew me away watching Banks played at a high level for the first time (at DCC, the first time I went) were all those impossible looking near-kiss duck-the-cue-ball shots like Rod just illustrated. wtf???? That was my thought, too Doc.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Doc; Did it look like this ? If so you have to force the CB forward to beat the kiss. Not too hard on the long rails.
Rod.
PS, Much tougher cross corner.

It could have been similar to your illustration. I can't remember the precise layout. Perhaps John will read this. If he remembers, he might comment.

Doc

 

[CaliRed]

I wish I had the DVD of Brumback vs. Pagulayan from this year's DCC. John annihilated Alex 3-0. In one of the last shots of the match, John had a straight back on the 8 ball, that I was certain couldn't be made. He made it. I told him after the match I'd give him $20 if he told me how he made it, but he said he didn't know HOW he made it!

If someone has it, perhaps they'd "Greenshot" it for us...

It was something like this: John made it in pocket "A". ~Doc

I remember that shot, it was the rail closest to where I was sitting and even after seeing these great bankers beat kisses all the time, that one still looked like there was no way he was going to get out of the kiss. After he fired it in, the very knowledable crowd showed their appreciation.

(PS... that is another aspect of the Derby that was enjoyable. People for the most clapped when a good shot was made, not every shot that was made. That insults my intelligence and detracts from my viewing experience when people clap for every shot they make... think ESPN)

(PSS... it was incredibly difficult to not tape those Accu-stats matches. They, of course, were the really good ones that had a lot riding on the outcome... thousands of dollars and titles. Pat Fleming had been gracious enough to let me do some taping in the arena, and I probably could have done more then I did, but in the back of my mind, I was not wanting to give anyone the wrong impression that THEY could tape in the arena.) I mostly just did some pan and scans of the crowds. I wish I would have done a lot of taping of the players when they weren't actually playing and caught all those reactions. I think that might have resulted in some really cool shots.

 

[MARK..HOU TX]

John is up 1-0 in games and 4-3 in this game. It's Luat's shot. What would you do?

P.S. Luat gets'em both.

View attachment 2583

I might try back bankin 9 to left rear corner and then cross the 2? to bottom right corner..if ya miss the nine maybe ya leave long awkward shot

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

John is up 1-0 in games and 4-3 in this game. It's Luat's shot. What would you do?

P.S. Luat gets'em both.

He banked the 2 straight-back:



Then he two-railed the 9 in the side:

 

[blackeee]

John is up 1-0 in games and 4-3 in this game. It's Luat's shot. What would you do?

P.S. Luat gets'em both.

View attachment 2583

I'd bank the 9 at pocket speed. If I make it I've got a good shot on the 8,If I don't I don't leave much.

 

[NH Steve]

I'd bank the 9 at pocket speed. If I make it I've got a good shot on the 8,If I don't I don't leave much.

Interesting comment -- but I am wondering, how can you expect to have a good shot on the 8 if you make the 9, yet "not leave much" if you miss the same shot? Would it be because you are counting on the 9 blocking the obvious pocket for banking the 8, in the event of a miss? If so, that is a really nifty little strategy that never occurred to me!

I'm not sure the cut on the 9-ball bank is enough to get the cue ball as far as I have drawn in this diagram, at pocket speed on the bank, but if it was, or either the cue ball or 9 ball was over a bit more to begin with, it would definitely work like this.

Anyway, I like the concept of banking a ball at pocket speed toward the same pocket that a second ball would also be a natural shot -- if you make it you have another shot, and if you don't, you hopefully block the pocket on the other bank...

 

[oldroller]

I'd bank the 9 at pocket speed. If I make it I've got a good shot on the 8,If I don't I don't leave much.

AMEN I like

 

[fred bentivegna]

No good

No good

I'd bank the 9 at pocket speed. If I make it I've got a good shot on the 8,If I don't I don't leave much.

Absolutely the wrong thing for a number of reasons. The most glaring is that the shot violates a valuable principle. Those that play and know 3 cushion, like Bill Smith, know that you try to never leave the cue ball and the object ball close to each other. (As Blackee is suggesting here) In bank pool, you only do that when you are playing position. That is why you would be hesitant to shoot the 8 ball pocket speed and stop the Q because you would be leaving the Q ball close to the 9 -- if you were hoping to get another shot if you missed the 8.
However, the mostly correct shot if you are in any kind of stroke, and needing both balls, would be to shoot the 8 with speed, stop the Qball and shoot the 9 next, 2 in the corner or straight back depending on just where the Qball stops exactly.
I say mostly, because you might be a little shaky and afraid to go all out with the 8 ball straight back. In that case, the 9 back under you would be the other alternative. But, if you do choose the 9, then you would need to hit it with speed, enough speed to go back up the table if you miss, back to the side with the 8 ball, while the Q ball would travel to the other end of the table.
The down side with even that choice, is that sometimes you hit it so good, even missing it, that the ball bobbles in the pocket and stays near it, maybe even selling out a cross corner.
Now, knowing all that, you should see that you are probably better off, even if you are a little shaky, gathering up your nuts and shooting all out on the 8 ball.

Beard
Remember this analysis is based on being down 4 to 3 in the score. Down by 4 to 2, 4 to 1 or 4 to 0, then you would shoot and stop on the 8 no matter what you were betting, or how you felt.

 

[blackeee]

Interesting comment -- but I am wondering, how can you expect to have a good shot on the 8 if you make the 9, yet "not leave much" if you miss the same shot? Would it be because you are counting on the 9 blocking the obvious pocket for banking the 8, in the event of a miss? If so, that is a really nifty little strategy that never occurred to me!

I'm not sure the cut on the 9-ball bank is enough to get the cue ball as far as I have drawn in this diagram, at pocket speed on the bank, but if it was, or either the cue ball or 9 ball was over a bit more to begin with, it would definitely work like this.

Anyway, I like the concept of banking a ball at pocket speed toward the same pocket that a second ball would also be a natural shot -- if you make it you have another shot, and if you don't, you hopefully block the pocket on the other bank...

Right Steve. I'd be counting on the 9 to block the 8 and if you spin whitey a little you should have a good straight back on the 8.

 

[John Brumback]

He shot It just like I would have.That Is, just to make the ball. The shot on the 8, Is about as easy as It's going to get. You just shoot It In and don't worry at all about the cue ball and then shoot the 9 however you have to. he also shot the 9 the way I would have.That Is,he shot It the free way. The 2 In the side like he shot was the free way to shoot It. That's why he jacked up on the 9 so he could stick the cueball on the rail. He knows how to play the game of bankpool pretty darn good.If your scared of that 8 ball shot you need to practice your banks alot more,lol. John B.

 

[John Brumback]

Doc; Did it look like this ? If so you have to force the CB forward to beat the kiss. Not too hard on the long rails.
Rod.
PS, Much tougher cross corner.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4Abrp4Bbbs4CaUq4Datt4EbTC1FOgp1GSHX3HWnk1IViE2PXFo2Qcpt3cWnk3cWKp2cbKi2kXFo3kWWc3kahx@[/CUETABLE]

Yes,that's how It was laying. I do remember that shot. It was worse than It looked. The 8 was even out father to the left than the cue ball. The reason I told Doc that I didn't know how I made It was because I couldn't believe how much I got the 8 to take the english. It Is sort of a stun shot.You have to stun the cueball with just a half a tip of left english to get the 8 to really grab and then twist while killing the cueball right there out of the way on the rail. It's not that hard If you know how to do It,But It Is kind of hard to explain.
Doc...don't spend that 20$ I'll show you how to make It In a few minutes.I was still busy at the time. lol John B.

 

[newfosgatesucks]

Pop the straight back and play for the 2 rail into the upper right corner was my guess, looks like it would leave you wide...Day L8, Dollar short I guess.

 

[John Brumback]

Yes,that's how It was laying. I do remember that shot. It was worse than It looked. The 8 was even out father to the left than the cue ball. The reason I told Doc that I didn't know how I made It was because I couldn't believe how much I got the 8 to take the english. It Is sort of a stun shot.You have to stun the cueball with just a half a tip of left english to get the 8 to really grab and then twist while killing the cueball right there out of the way on the rail. It's not that hard If you know how to do It,But It Is kind of hard to explain.
Doc...don't spend that 20$ I'll show you how to make It In a few minutes.I was still busy at the time. lol John B.

Hello,This Is for Doc,manily.But I just watched this match the other day and the shot Doc was asking about was not the shot I thought It was.

I was wrong and I'm sorry Doc. I didn't force the cueball over to that rail and cross the ball by It. It was setting so funny I still can't believe I made It.But anyway I hit the cueball with center and just a hair of left and had to force the cueball out of the way to the left.And hope the 8ball takes enough english
so that I have room to get the cueball out of the way.
I know it sounds very confusing but I tried.lol Thanks,John B.