joyner /cooney game 4

[Skin]

It sounded like yuo guys were talking about a shot where there are 3 ball spotted and they are the only balls on the table and you have ball in hand behind the house line. It sounded like you were kicking at the bottom ball off the bottom rail or, worse yet, thin hitting the bottom ball and then going off the bottom rail and snuggling back up to the bottom of the three balls. As I said, I am just going on verbal descriptions.

petie, I am just guessing that maybe you do not have the Adobe Shockwave application on your computer and that might be why you cannot see the Wei tables. If you go here you can download it and try to see if that is the problem.

http://get.adobe.com/shockwave/

Good luck.

Skin

 

[Miller]

that did it for me. thanks skin.

 

[lll]

Understand your handicap Petie, but we (thankfully) moved on from the "3 balls on the spot" several pages ago. We are now getting a "free" clinic from Mr. Know-it-all, on all possible moves in general.

He is busy gathering his meager troops to defend his usual ranting and raving... I am thorougly convinced, he would get all red in the face, and argue with a cattleman about the price of beef.

He is spouting "axiom's", as if he were Mose's on the mountain. I tried to inject a little humor into his "Pool for Dummies" type of teaching. And (as usual) was soundly trounced, for leaving out one of his axioms. (which I probably answered 10 times allready)
He has also convinced himself that everyone from Efren, to the lowliest banger, loves him unconditionally, and hangs on his every word... So of course they must "hate" me

He's even gone back to my stopping in Bensingers, 40some years ago with RF, (literally between planes) and not finding any action... He hasn't brought that out of his "insult bag" in years... Also, he hasn't done the math too well re; the time frame. He had not yet reached his 30's (where he himself said 'modestly, he became an 'instant' one pocket player) and Artie was probably still in school.
Obviously, we didn't think to ask for a [sic] bank pool game.

He is currently in his "if you guys don't love me, I am going into my pout" mode. (yet again).
He has also convinced himself, that everyone from Efren, to the lowliest banger, loves him unconditionally, so of course they must "hate" me

dick dont shoot the messenger on this one please
you and i have had a GREAT relationship since ive joined
with pms you have answered many of my questions and been very suppotive
we have exchanged personal ( family things) that go beyond a superficial online one pocket relationship
ghost dont go there there is no bromance

BUT i have to say in all the years ive been a member most of your posts have been needles and not educational like Billy Incardona for example
you are in eddie robbins book so you must have been a great player
why dont you share your insinght and experience with us rather than getting into a pissing contest with freddy???

just askin


as you would say
i still wuv you
larry

 

[fred bentivegna]

Another educational post

Another educational post

Understand your handicap Petie, but we (thankfully) moved on from the "3 balls on the spot" several pages ago. We are now getting a "free" clinic from Mr. Know-it-all, on all possible moves in general.

He is busy gathering his meager troops to defend his usual ranting and raving... I am thorougly convinced, he would get all red in the face, and argue with a cattleman about the price of beef.

He is spouting "axiom's", as if he were Mose's on the mountain. I tried to inject a little humor into his "Pool for Dummies" type of teaching. And (as usual) was soundly trounced, for leaving out one of his axioms. (which I probably answered 10 times allready)
He has also convinced himself that everyone from Efren, to the lowliest banger, loves him unconditionally, and hangs on his every word... So of course they must "hate" me...

He's even gone back to my stopping in Bensingers, 40some years ago with RF, (literally between planes) and not finding any action... He hasn't brought that out of his "insult bag" in years... Also, he hasn't done the math too well re; the time frame. He had not yet reached his 30's (where he himself said 'modestly, he became an 'instant' one pocket player) and Artie was probably still in school.
Obviously, we didn't think to ask for a [sic] bank pool game.

He is currently in his "if you guys don't love me, I am going into my pout" mode. (yet again)...
He has also convinced himself, that everyone from Efren, to the lowliest banger, loves him unconditionally, so of course they must "hate" me...

No, they dont love me unconditionally, they just respect me. And I am sure they dont hate you either. You just would carry zero weight in the "would they ever take your ideas into consideration" department.

Notice how he belittled the axioms I presented. I'm trying to teach and he is locked in on the knock. Anybody else think its Pool for Dummies type of teaching? I certainly didnt think so. The logic sounded pretty solid to me. In between me "pouting" and not getting enough love, I keep trying to bring up situational methods. Things that can be applied over and over. He keeps trying to stop that process and piss on it into oblivion. A very bitter, jealous old man.

Beard

 

[lll]

No, they dont love me unconditionally, they just respect me. And I am sure they dont hate you either. You just would carry zero weight in the "would they ever take your ideas into consideration" department.

Notice how he belittled the axioms I presented. I'm trying to teach and he is locked in on the knock. Anybody else think its Pool for Dummies type of teaching? I certainly didnt think so. The logic sounded pretty solid to me. In between me "pouting" and not getting enough love, I keep trying to bring up situational methods. Things that can be applied over and over. He keeps trying to stop that process and piss on it into oblivion. A very bitter, jealous old man.

Beard

freddy and dick your personal feud should stay in the members forum
where we members can still read it and get our rocks off
on the main forum
PLEASE JUST TEACH US HOW TO PLAY ONE POCKET

is that too much to ask?????

 

[SJDinPHX]

Do you really think he plays fair ???

Do you really think he plays fair ???

dick dont shoot the messenger on this one please
you and i have had a GREAT relationship since ive joined
with pms you have answered many of my questions and been very suppotive
we have exchanged personal ( family things) that go beyond a superficial online one pocket relationship
ghost dont go there there is no bromance

BUT i have to say in all the years ive been a member most of your posts have been needles and not educational like Billy Incardona for example
you are in eddie robbins book so you must have been a great player
why dont you share your insinght and experience with us rather than getting into a pissing contest with freddy???

just askin

as you would say
i still wuv you
larry

Larry, (or anyone)

Take a few minutes, and scan the entire thread...I tried to be as informative as I could, and answered politely in the first 48 posts..Zero needles or barbs...I did not ridicule his "thin shot" when he first posted it (even though I wanted to)...I merely stated the reasons why I didn't feel comfortable shooting it...

Then in post #49,(guess who).. it all went to hell...Then, came posts #92, 107, and 116, (his co-commentator) he became bitter, and uncontrollable..and the name calling and 'harumphing' began,...and the gloves came off... I admit I am weak, in that I cannot take his never-ending BS, 'self-praise' (new word, for you know what) and insults, without firing back.

It has continued right up to his last post, which I shall not even bother to respond to. Guess thats the only way to end it.... I would like someone to ask him...What in God's name, does he think I have to be jealous of ????
I agree, once it started going downhill...it should have been members only. but I don't run this show.

Dick

PS..One more quote from his last post..Tell me this is not the musings of an ego-maniac...He answers his own question, and then backs it up, with his own logic.. (me,me,me,me,me,me, I,I,I,I,I,I,I)... Don't know why it rubs me so wrong, but it does.

Fred Bentevigna;
"Anybody else think its Pool for Dummies type of teaching? I certainly didnt think so. The logic sounded pretty solid to me".

PPS..He also suffers from the delusion that I am a "jealous, bitter old man"....When in fact, I will spot him the 7-8 years I am his senior, and "still" would not trade places with him, with a gun to my head ...(as well adjusted as "he" thinks he is)
I am thankful I can still have fun, and enjoy life, as best I can... And, I am very thankful I don't have to spend my remaining days, like him, begging for the credibility "he" says I lack.

 

[Skin]

Larry, (or anyone)

Take a few minutes, and scan the entire thread...I tried to be as informative as I could, and answered politely in the first 48 posts...I did not ridicule his "thin shot" when he first posted it (even though I wanted to)...I merely stated the reasons why I didn't feel comfortable shooting it...

Then in post #49,(guess who).. it all went to hell...Then, came posts #92, 107, and 116, (his co-commentator) he became bitter, and uncontrollable..and the name calling and 'harumphing' began.

It has continued right up to his last post, which I shall not even bother to respond to. Guess thats the only way to end it.... I would like someone to ask him...What in God's name, does he think have to be jealous of ????
I agree, once it started going downhill...it should have been members only. but I don't run this show.

Dick, in my opinion, you posted the best shot for three balls on the spot in that situation. I learned from that. You were, and contibue to be, an intelligent thinker of the game.

Had your shot been played by Cooney, the thread would have gone another direction because we would have been discussing an entirely different (uptable) game scenario. Wish it had gone that way because you are brilliant at that facet of the game and I need to learn a lot to overcome my weaknesses there.

Skin

 

[fred bentivegna]

What happened...

What happened...

Dick, in my opinion, you posted the best shot for three balls on the spot in that situation. I learned from that. You were, and contibue to be, an intelligent thinker of the game.

Had your shot been played by Cooney, the thread would have gone another direction because we would have been discussing an entirely different (uptable) game scenario. Wish it had gone that way because you are brilliant at that facet of the game and I need to learn a lot to overcome my weaknesses there.

Skin

...to your original shot choice in post #138?

I will say this once more and then leave it alone. I am not arguing about shot choice, I am arguing about method. Method. Method. Something you can do all the time, not once in a blue moon. This subject has still not been broached by anyone yet --but me. Too boring? Too complicated? No prob. I aint got nobody putting checks in the mail to me for releasing it anyway. Pool for Dummies, Mr_____ called it.

Beard

 

[petie]

petie, I am just guessing that maybe you do not have the Adobe Shockwave application on your computer and that might be why you cannot see the Wei tables. If you go here you can download it and try to see if that is the problem.

http://get.adobe.com/shockwave/

Good luck.

Skin

Skin, IT WORKED! I can't tell you how greatful I am. I was talking about a totally different shot than the one that is shown. Thanks again. I feel like a new man.

Petie

 

[Skin]

...to your original shot choice in post #138?

I will say this once more and then leave it alone. I am not arguing about shot choice, I am arguing about method. Method. Method. Something you can do all the time, not once in a blue moon. This subject has still not been broached by anyone yet --but me. Too boring? Too complicated? No prob. I aint got nobody putting checks in the mail to me for releasing it anyway. Pool for Dummies, Mr_____ called it.

Beard

Fred, my original shot choice was to tap the head ball and put the 3rd on the rail or bring it back up into the line, leaving the cb frozen on the head ball. If you really want to know, I still think that is a good shot with the shooter needing one and the opponent needing three.

Please do not draw me into the personal conflict. I have no stomach for it. I just want to learn how to play better and have a little back-and-forth fun with th guys on this site. Zat's all.

 

[petie]

I like the shot in post #163. It's hard to screw it up too much and yealds safety and table advantage.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Not a bad shot

Not a bad shot

Fred, my original shot choice was to tap the head ball and put the 3rd on the rail or bring it back up into the line, leaving the cb frozen on the head ball. If you really want to know, I still think that is a good shot with the shooter needing one and the opponent needing three.

Please do not draw me into the personal conflict. I have no stomach for it. I just want to learn how to play better and have a little back-and-forth fun with th guys on this site. Zat's all.

Know that shot well. However, it is much stronger in bank pool. The downside in onepocket, when you are trying to protect your lead, is that your oppo will spin off the ball you are frozen to and send you to the end rail with all 3 balls in play. (ie., long rail, to the long rail, down to the bottom head rail)

Lets call this another axiom. Needing one, never leave all the balls in play down on the foot rail, no matter if they are tied up, seemingly out of play, or what -- if you can help it. The head ball freeze shot leaves them all in the danger zone.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Petie?

Petie?

I like the shot in post #163. It's hard to screw it up too much and yealds safety and table advantage.

That's the shot that lost the game for Joyner. Apparently it was easier to screw up than you might have thought. Look at the next post #164.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Why? I'll tell you why

Why? I'll tell you why

..Tell me this is not the musings of an ego-maniac...He answers his own question, and then backs it up, with his own logic.. (me,me,me,me,me,me, I,I,I,I,I,I,I)... Don't know why it rubs me so wrong, but it does.

No matter how much I despise a knocking creep like you, this "ego-maniac" still tries to pass down my 50 years of accumulated knowledge as best I can. My disgust with you doesnt stop me from that. If you ever managed to come up with something valuable about pool, I certainly wouldnt knock or ridicule what you said. And I never have. My personal ethics wouldn't allow me to do that.
Unlike you, who admitted you wanted to ridicule my selection. You still added the preposterous charge of "risky" to it. And unfairly and unobjectively, kept to that same line. You ridiculed Dennis for even considering it.

If anyone goes thru every post in this thread they will not find one word I said against your shot choice. No ridicule, only a presentation of logical arguments of why I might shoot the shot I proposed.

And your obsession with me operates in the opposite direction. You dont really care if what I have to say is valuable to those that want to hear it. You would much rather defuse me than allow others to maybe learn something.

Finally, to address your last question,... "Don't know why it rubs me so wrong, but it does."
Because you are a lonely, bitter, washed-up old man, with no life, and you resent the shit out of a same generation, contemporary like me. A 70 yr old who aint given up yet, and still has enthusiasm for pool. I still write, I still play, I still teach, while you just resent and knock.

Beard

If you would have just left me alone and kept your pus mouth shut I wouldnt have brought it to this.

 

[petie]

That's the shot that lost the game for Joyner. Apparently it was easier to screw up than you might have thought. Look at the next post #164.

Beard

My bad I meant post 165 where the balls are lined up on the spot.

 

[SJDinPHX]

No need for furthering his capacity to insult...He is getting too repetitious for me, or anyone else I know !..For anyone who still gives a s**t..just re-read Post #206..(with a little editing..)

 

[petie]

No need for furthering his capacity to insult...He is getting too repetitious for me, or anyone else I know !..For anyone who still gives a s**t..just re-read Post #206..(with a little editing..)

I, for one, don't give a shit about this infantile feud. I do, however, care a great deal about the one pocket savvy you both have even when you don't agree with each others' shot. I'd bet a bundle I'm not alone.

 

[lll]

I, for one, don't give a shit about this infantile feud. I do, however, care a great deal about the one pocket savvy you both have even when you don't agree with each others' shot. I'd bet a bundle I'm not alone.

usally ive learned when someone wants to bet they are right

 

[wgcp]

I'll take part of that bet... but I will say, if ever they meet and play, someone needs to tape the "sharking" just to play for future generations... hell put a mike on both of them and let them talk us through the shots... I think everyone would learn something from it...
I would put a 100 perhaps even stake one of them to get them to vegas to play in the new TAR challenge room...

Bille

 

[wincardona]

Fred, when I thought about this shot originally the one thing that bothered me was leaving the cb very close to the opponent's uptable corner. From there he may have an angle to go off the head ball (the 1 in your diagrams) and spin the cb two rails to underneath and frozen to the ball on the rail (the 3).

[cuetable]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AALW4BATn4CJEV2PVEF4UALW3UCPa4VATn3VEnk3VOUx2kVEF4kByM4kbqE4kLpl4kKrh@[/cuetable]

Now I am hurting because all three balls are in play and I now have lousy options for getting the cb safe. This is why I like the cb leave on the foot rail like in Dick's and Billy's shots.

Skin

I am now in France and my opinion about this routine shot has not changed. Just like Cooney saw it, I see it, there is zero, nothing wrong with the shot Cooney selected. It lends to an up table game with zero, no risk what so ever. I have been in this position many times, and I have personally witnessed many top players shoot the same shot without hesitation. Needing one ball this is clearly the correct shot. I believe what the objective is, is to force all balls up table, correct?

Billy I.