Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
LVC has 4 balls to AP's 0. It's LVC's shot. What would you do?
Lee Van Corteza vs. Alex Pagulayan 2012 D.C.C.
- Thread starter Cowboy Dennis
- Start date
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
He is looking in the wrong direction. What is most dangerous ball on the table? When you have the lead that is the stuff you look for. It happens to be the pink ball (4?). He needs to shoot at it or play safe and move it somewhere. In this case he has a natural shot that will serve many purposes. Cross corner twice. Its laying perfect anyway. This one you dont roll, you go all out on it because it is laying so good. That means hit it in the face and stop the cue ball with medium speed. 1. You will move it from its premium position. 2. You will put it down near the foot rail complicating the layout, and you may even block the pocket from the straight backs that are aiming there. 3. You have a big chance of making it and winning the game.
Beard
The only error would be if he tried to be a chiseler and roll forward when he shoots it, trying to play safer on the straight backs down table. Unlike a one rail bank, It is much easier to control the speed on a twice shot with a stop ball rather than rolling it.
gulfportdoc
Verified Member
Looks like the shooter is considering the 8 twice cross-corner. Those Filipinos like to shoot. The pink twice across is a good selection, but if it doesn't pocket, or block the pocket, then the opponent has a straight back on the 8 or 7 (brown). With a 4-0 lead, I might just cut the pink down towards the pocket. Then there's nothing for the shooter to swing at period.
Doc
Doc
tylerdurden
Verified Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2011
- Messages
- 1,959
Delete, I thought I was in the one pocket forum but im in banks. Ha, that was hilarious, i was coming up with one hole shots and wondering where the extra 6 balls disappeared to lol.
wincardona
Verified Member
I would roll at the 8 ball and bank it softly under the 7 ball, from there he leaves nothing to shoot at and he positions the 8 ball in a difficult position for any player to deal with later. I believe in situations like this one where the shooter needs only one ball he has to think deeper in the future and try to figure out what the most threatening area of the table is and change it, if possible.. To me it's the position of the 7 and 8 balls. If it comes to being forced to pocket the 9 ball at a later time it will be very difficult to defend against the 7 and 8 balls.Why not position the 8 ball now in a difficult position for both players to have to deal with? It's free and simple.(just about)
Dr. Bill
Dr. Bill
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fred bentivegna
Verified Member
That will really work. Run the cue ball too far forward and you leave a cross side. Hold it a little higher off of the short rail and you could very well leave a 2 in the side.
With the 9 ball blocking the pocket and only straight back and 1 cross corner open, that happens to be the LEAST threatening area of the table in this situation.
Needing one ball those two are pretty much where you want them to be. Whatever straight back he chooses will leave you a good shot for the game winner if he misses, and with 2 balls hanging in the pocket he cant get all the way out anyway.
Some of you are worrying about leaving a straight back. Ask yourself this question: Just exactly what kind of a bank would you rather be leaving, a cross corner or a cross side instead? If you have to leave something, straight backs are what you want to leave.
To not shoot at the twice across game winner when you are, a., off the rail with the cue ball, b.,only a couple of diamonds away, c., shooting at an perfectly natural angle, d., full hit with a stop ball, e., with a chance to hang it up or block the pocket, f., with the downside that you might leave a straight back ( that he certainly cant win with) if you dont block the pocket -- boggles my mind.
Anyone can feel free to debate that reasoning point by point.
Beard
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Needing one ball why on earth would I ever want to pocket the 9 ball?
The dangerous ball in the most dangerous position is the 4 ball.
Beard
wincardona
Verified Member
What I was referring to is that if it ever came to that where you were forced to shoot the 9 ball, because it just might of been your best option at the time you would of had a tougher task because of the position of the 7 and 8 balls. Also by positioning the 8 ball under the 7 ball, now the option of shooting the 9 ball later on becomes much less daunting.
Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
Freddie, by rolling the 8 ball softly under the 7 ball what you're doing is positioning both the 7 and 8 balls in a difficult position, and it's for free. Yes it's not costing you any thing to do it, other than that two in the corner that you feel is important. I'm thinking what's the hurry? Why shoot the 4 ball two in the corner and force the issue? Really no need for that at this time.
What we're talking about here is table management, we all have our own managing skills, that's one of the most crucial areas in playing winning "pool". And you know what? We all, including yourself and me, think we manage the best. Maybe we don't.
Dr. Bill
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fred bentivegna
Verified Member
The need for that (pocketing the 9 rather than touching the 7 or 8 might come up about the time that Humpy straightens out.
Beard
Banks
Verified Member
I don't see anything that's not too risky, other than bumping the 8 to block the 7 short into the corner. If you bump the 7, you may leave the 7 or 8 for the side, maybe even the 4 all the way back. Just get the CB close to the rail and the 8 blocking the 7. He may get a flying chance at the back-cut bank on the 7 to the side or a Z on the 4, but I'd be willing to live with that over the other options. Going for a shot here looks like a pretty bad idea, to put it mildly.
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
That will really work. Run the cue ball too far forward and you leave a cross side. Hold it a little higher off of the short rail and you could very well leave a 2 in the side. (First, you're only going to roll the shot, the cue ball will end up near the side rail in a safe position, easy shot. Secondly i'm really not concerned about leaving n off angle two in the side) Beard: and why, pray tell would you not be worried? Nobody can ever make that shot?
With the 9 ball blocking the pocket and only straight back and 1 cross corner open, that happens to be the LEAST threatening area of the table in this situation. (That's my point, the 9 ball most likely will be pocketed by either you or your opponent shortly, then where's the most threatening area? That's why I said to look deeper into the future and choose a shot that would remedy that possible situation, now when you have a chance. What are you trading for that? A two rail bank in the corner and stopping your ball, give me a break) Beard:
As far as worrying about me having to make the 9 ball, read post #10 for what I said about Humpy.
Needing one ball those two are pretty much where you want them to be. Whatever straight back he chooses will leave you a good shot for the game winner if he misses, and with 2 balls hanging in the pocket he cant get all the way out anyway. (Right and wrong,yes you're right about him not being able to get out with two balls hanging. But if you shoot your two in the corner and miss you will be leaving a just about free bank as a return shot.)
Some of you are worrying about leaving a straight back. Ask yourself this question: Just exactly what kind of a bank would you rather be leaving, a cross corner or a cross side instead? If you have to leave something, straight backs are what you want to leave. (Shooting the 8 ball you don't leave either)
To not shoot at the twice across game winner when you are, a., off the rail with the cue ball, b.,only a couple of diamonds away, c., shooting at an perfectly natural angle, d., full hit with a stop ball, e., with a chance to hang it up or block the pocket, f., with the downside that you might leave a straight back ( that he certainly cant win with) if you dont block the pocket -- boggles my mind. (You're not a favorite to do either from the position you're shooting from. make it or block the pocket, plus trading that shot with the hopes of being productive as opposed to shooting a shot that's a guarantee of being productive seems like an easy choice for me) Beard: I would like to bet that I make it 1 out of 3. I would bet that I block the pocket or make it, 2 out of 4.
Anyone can feel free to debate that reasoning point by point.
Beard
I am going to step out here. I dont believe that there is a living creature that manages the game of bank pool better than me. Just like when I barked that out to all those champions at the Cincinnati bank tourn. Nobody made a peep.
Finally, your reasoning is so off base that I can only conclude that you are not aware that the score is 4 to 0.
Another point that usually is overlooked by 1pkt players. I mentioned this in an earlier thread and it apparently disappeared back into the atmosphere.
Bank Pool Axiom: Being in the 1 hole in banks is nowhere near as safe and strong as it is in 1pkt. In 1pkt you can really take balls out of play because you only have to defend against 1 pocket. In banks someone who is behind can get back in the game 40 times faster than 1pkt. That is why in bank pool you dont look to stall on the hill and hope your oppo puts you out. You must push the issue more than you would in 1pkt.
Now with all that said, does anyone still want to not try and get out with the cross corner twice?
If so, all with dissenting opinions please post your opposition -- or your support of Billy's position. It is important that I get to know who is buying into my concepts. At this point it doesnt seem like anybody is:frus.
BEard
That will really work. Run the cue ball too far forward and you leave a cross side. Hold it a little higher off of the short rail and you could very well leave a 2 in the side. (First, you're only going to roll the shot, the cue ball will end up near the side rail in a safe position, easy shot. Secondly i'm really not concerned about leaving n off angle two in the side) Beard: and why, pray tell would you not be worried? Nobody can ever make that shot?
With the 9 ball blocking the pocket and only straight back and 1 cross corner open, that happens to be the LEAST threatening area of the table in this situation. (That's my point, the 9 ball most likely will be pocketed by either you or your opponent shortly, then where's the most threatening area? That's why I said to look deeper into the future and choose a shot that would remedy that possible situation, now when you have a chance. What are you trading for that? A two rail bank in the corner and stopping your ball, give me a break) Beard:
As far as worrying about me having to make the 9 ball, read post #10 for what I said about Humpy.
Needing one ball those two are pretty much where you want them to be. Whatever straight back he chooses will leave you a good shot for the game winner if he misses, and with 2 balls hanging in the pocket he cant get all the way out anyway. (Right and wrong,yes you're right about him not being able to get out with two balls hanging. But if you shoot your two in the corner and miss you will be leaving a just about free bank as a return shot.)
Some of you are worrying about leaving a straight back. Ask yourself this question: Just exactly what kind of a bank would you rather be leaving, a cross corner or a cross side instead? If you have to leave something, straight backs are what you want to leave. (Shooting the 8 ball you don't leave either)
To not shoot at the twice across game winner when you are, a., off the rail with the cue ball, b.,only a couple of diamonds away, c., shooting at an perfectly natural angle, d., full hit with a stop ball, e., with a chance to hang it up or block the pocket, f., with the downside that you might leave a straight back ( that he certainly cant win with) if you dont block the pocket -- boggles my mind. (You're not a favorite to do either from the position you're shooting from. make it or block the pocket, plus trading that shot with the hopes of being productive as opposed to shooting a shot that's a guarantee of being productive seems like an easy choice for me) Beard: I would like to bet that I make it 1 out of 3. I would bet that I block the pocket or make it, 2 out of 4.
Anyone can feel free to debate that reasoning point by point.
Beard
wincardona; said:
I am going to step out here. I dont believe that there is a living creature that manages the game of bank pool better than me. Just like when I barked that out to all those champions at the Cincinnati bank tourn. Nobody made a peep.
Finally, your reasoning is so off base that I can only conclude that you are not aware that the score is 4 to 0.
Another point that usually is overlooked by 1pkt players. I mentioned this in an earlier thread and it apparently disappeared back into the atmosphere.
Bank Pool Axiom: Being in the 1 hole in banks is nowhere near as safe and strong as it is in 1pkt. In 1pkt you can really take balls out of play because you only have to defend against 1 pocket. In banks someone who is behind can get back in the game 40 times faster than 1pkt. That is why in bank pool you dont look to stall on the hill and hope your oppo puts you out. You must push the issue more than you would in 1pkt.
Now with all that said, does anyone still want to not try and get out with the cross corner twice?
If so, all with dissenting opinions please post your opposition -- or your support of Billy's position. It is important that I get to know who is buying into my concepts. At this point it doesnt seem like anybody is:frus.
BEard
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wincardona
Verified Member
Don't get too upset because your option in this situation isn't an obvious one, there seems to me that there are a few ways one can look at this situation.:sorry We only can explain how we think about situations and why, then it's up to the players that are reading to come to their own conclusion, which at times (believe it or not) may vary from our opinion.
Dr. Bill
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
fred bentivegna
Verified Member
Don't get too upset because your option in this situation isn't an obvious one, there seems to me that there are a few ways one can look at this situation.:sorry We only can explain how we think about situations and why, then it's up to the players that are reading to come to their own conclusion, which at times (believe it or not) may vary from our opinion.
Dr. Bill
That counts as 2 for Dr Bill.
Dr Bill 2, Da Beard 0
Beard
Banks
Verified Member
If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.
Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.
wincardona
Verified Member
I have learned much of what I know listening to players like yourself, you have learned much the same way I have. But you must agree that we're both still learning. With that said, I have found a lot of merit in what you're saying, I would hope you have seen some in my thoughts.
Dr. Bill
wincardona
Verified Member
You have thoroughly confused me when you said that you might scratch shooting the 8 ball
You simply have to hit the 8 ball straight ahead and roll softly through the 8 ball and position it in back of the 7 ball. Where's the scratch?Dr. Bill
Banks
Verified Member
You have thoroughly confused me when you said that you might scratch shooting the 8 ball
Dr. Bill
I was talking about the Z-bank, not the safety. I guess I should have pointed that out.
Cowboy Dennis
Verified Member
I don't care what anyone else on the planet would shoot or why, but, for my money I'm banking the 4 ball two-rails cross-corner just as you would Freddy. I would never do otherwise in this position.
What's not to like? You need one ball. You get to shoot straight ahead, stroke the ball, and it will die blocking the corner if you miss it (most likely) preventing the straight-back on the 7 & 8. This is fairly simple to see.
Dennis
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