Moving is Alive and Well

[One Pocket Ghost]

Another blanket statement regarding One Pocket that is not true, and that I get tired of hearing is that....

...."Moving is going out of style" - "The up and coming young One Pocket players shoot at everything" - "They are all playing a new super-aggressive style of One Pocket".....well, that's a bunch of bs....

Yeah, Scott Frost and Tony Chohan shoot that very aggressive style, but most other modern day young One Pocket players do not - they are not firing at everything - they are very intent on correctly learning the game and the moves completely, and they already have well rounded games - shooting, banking, and moving well - some of these younger players are already well known, and some of them are not widely known yet.....Examples >>>

Pro Players that we do all know: Gabe Owen, Larry Nevel, Alex P. SVB, etc.

Lower level Pros/Strong shortstops: Nick Vita, Sylver Ochoa, Chris Gentile, Adam Smith, Ryan Stone, Joey Gray, Paul Song, and a few more who’s names I don’t remember - trust me, these young guys are moving very well (especially Nick and Sylver) - not just shooting...watch them play if you get a chance.

- Ghost

Ps, Anybody on here who is from their area, or is familiar with one of these young guys that I mentioned - tell me what you think of his game.

 

[senor]

Just my opinions...Gabe is the best American one pocket player. Scott does not shoot straight up in the air, in my experience, as often as Chohan does and would handle Tony in the much the same way Gabe handled Tony. I would like to see Gabe and Scott play, but not sure if that will happen anytime soon.

Sylver is the only one of those young players I am really familiar with. I am still convinced that shooting straight is the best part of his one pocket game. Not that he does not have respect for the game and the desire to learn, because I think it is evident that he does. As far as I have seen, he really is a student of the game and learns at every opportunity. Unfortunately, he may have been a victim of his surroundings growing up. I'm sure he did not have someone like the Beard, SJD, OPG or JrHendy to spar with and learn from on a daily basis while growing up in South Texas.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Good thread Ghost.

Good thread Ghost.

Just my opinions...Gabe is the best American one pocket player. Scott does not shoot straight up in the air, in my experience, as often as Chohan does and would handle Tony in the much the same way Gabe handled Tony. I would like to see Gabe and Scott play, but not sure if that will happen anytime soon.

Sylver is the only one of those young players I am really familiar with. I am still convinced that shooting straight is the best part of his one pocket game. Not that he does not have respect for the game and the desire to learn, because I think it is evident that he does. As far as I have seen, he really is a student of the game and learns at every opportunity. Unfortunately, he may have been a victim of his surroundings growing up. I'm sure he did not have someone like the Beard or SJD to spar with and learn from on a daily basis while growing up in South Texas.

FWIW, I very much agree with both the Ghost and Senor on their take of the current crop of young gun's.
Like Senor, I can only evaluate the players whose progress I have witnessed. In my case, That would be Scott and Gabe.
With the recent upsurge of live streaming (a real Godsend) I have been able to watch some of the up and comer's, such as Sylver, Chohan and others.
TAR Challenge matches are great for the game. But remember, we are watching guys who, In a very short time, can really turn it around if they have the desire to learn the game.
It is not a lot different from Efrens first exposure to the game of 1P. He caught on quicker than most, but he also had so much going for him in the skill department. He only had to learn the basics, and that worked for HIM.
Efren, Parica, Alex, Gabe, Scott, SVB, and several others, are also endowed with great natural ability. It only remains to be seen which one of these newer guys will polish their game first, take it to the next level, and put some heat on the top 1P players.
Gabe has thus far shown me that he is only going to get better. Scott is allready near the top of his game. I don't know anyone playing better right now.
If the young guns of 9/10 ball want to challenge these guys in 1P, they had better realize that, as the Ghost said, moving is alive and well, and they had better learn how its done. Most of them will, some of them won't.

Dick

 

[Cal]

Moving is Alive and Well

If Gabe is the best american 1P player why does he need a spot from players like Cliff Joyner for the cash???????? or would he play him even ?????????

 

[SJDinPHX]

May not be close !

May not be close !

If Gabe is the best american 1P player why does he need a spot from players like Cliff Joyner for the cash???????? or would he play him even ?????????

From what I've seen lately, if Cliff doesn't snap out of the funk he's in (or overcome some health issues) Gabe would be the favorite playing even. JMHO.

Dick

 

[jrhendy]

Another blanket statement regarding One Pocket that is not true, and that I get tired of hearing is that....

....Moving is going out of style - The up and coming young One Pocket players shoot at everything - They are playing a new super-aggressive style of One Pocket.....Don't worry old schoolers, that's a bunch of bs....
....Examples....

Pro Players that we all know: Gabe Owen, Larry Nevel, Alex P. SVB, etc.

Lower level Pros/Strong shortstops: Nick Vita, Sylver Ochoa, John Morra, Adam Smith, Ryan Stone, Joey Gray, Paul Song, and many more who’s names I don’t know - trust me, these young guys are moving very well (especially Nick and Sylver) - not just shooting. - watch them play if you get a chance.

- Ghost

Ps, Anybody on here who is from their area, or is familiar with one of these young guys that I mentioned - tell me what you think of his game.

I watched Sylver quite a bit at the July 4th tournament at Hollywood Billiards(he was 2nd) and also gambling with Frost. He has a very well rounded game and is close, if not already there, with the upper echelon of one pocket players IMO. Vita played in the Gulfport Tournament and while he didn't do well in the tournament, it was handicapped and he simply had to give up too much weight, I watched him gambling and he is a monster and liable to beat anyone in one pocket IMO.

I have to agree with you on this one Ghost.

 

[Skin]

If the young guns of 9/10 ball want to challenge these guys in 1P, they had better realize that, as the Ghost said, moving is alive and well, and they had better learn how its done. Most of them will, some of them won't.

Dick

I finally realized after losing so much that there is just about nothing you can bring from 9 & 10b that will help you at one-pocket, except shooting straight. You really have to brainwash yourself and start completely over in how you think and play. Guys coming from 14.1 probably make the transition easiest, don't you think?

Skin

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Guys coming from 14.1 probably make the transition easiest, don't you think?

Skin

Skin........Actually the guy that I think would bring the most with him from the other games would be a great bank pool player - cuz banking is HUGE in One Pocket.....

More than once I've been in a short race match with a real strong bank player, who I could out move by about a ball or so, and lose a close match with them because they came with one or two key/killer bank shots during the match.....It happened to me at the DCC 2 years ago playing a Louisville area player by the name of Brian Roberts (good One Pocket player-great banker) - anybody on here from that area that knows Brian ?......Anyways, I still have nightmares from that match - we were both 4 and 1 at this point, just getting into the money, and the loser is out of the tournament - we're hill hill in games and 5-4 in balls in the hill game, when he proceeds to jack up from about 1/2" off the rail and spear in a NOT FREE 9 foot straight back at warp speed on those tight pockets - guess he figured it was a hanger for him, the bank splits the pocket and he wins the match.

- Ghost

 

[NH Steve]

I finally realized after losing so much that there is just about nothing you can bring from 9 & 10b that will help you at one-pocket, except shooting straight. You really have to brainwash yourself and start completely over in how you think and play. Guys coming from 14.1 probably make the transition easiest, don't you think?

Skin

I would say Straight pool and Banks are the best 'companion games' for One Pocket. But when playing Banks, the way your banks are shot (for most players, lol) is completely different from One Pocket, ie the warp speed 'The Ghost' mentions.

The parts of rotation game skills that translate, besides the obvious position and shot-making, would be the safety and kicking play involved. Byut you are certainly right about the the different mindset.

I found myself in a casual 8-ball match the other day and did find it a great place to experiment with Artie's advice about "controlling what your opponent is able to shoot at" theory.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Guys coming from 14.1 probably make the transition easiest, don't you think?

14.1 players have a couple of good skills which would help them in 1P. They are accustomed to working in close to other balls, and moving the cueball short distances for pinpoint position. Also it is common to nudge frozen balls for shape, and similarly to break open larger clusters.

These skills are not used often in 9/10-ball. However they are used frequently in Rotation, due to the 15 ball rack. Maybe that's why Reyes and some of the older Philippinos make such natural 1P players.

Good 8-ball players are also accustomed to the above skills. It may be that a good 8-ball player would have an easier transition to 1P than would a 9-baller. The mindset is certainly different.

Doc

 

[NH Steve]

14.1 players have a couple of good skills which would help them in 1P. They are accustomed to working in close to other balls, and moving the cueball short distances for pinpoint position. Also it is common to nudge frozen balls for shape, and similarly to break open larger clusters.

These skills are not used often in 9/10-ball. However they are used frequently in Rotation, due to the 15 ball rack. Maybe that's why Reyes and some of the older Philippinos make such natural 1P players.

Good 8-ball players are also accustomed to the above skills. It may be that a good 8-ball player would have an easier transition to 1P than would a 9-baller. The mindset is certainly different.

Doc

To those thoughts I would also like to mention "reading the stack" -- another real big 14.1 skill that translates to One Pocket.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I finally realized after losing so much that there is just about nothing you can bring from 9 & 10b that will help you at one-pocket, except shooting straight. You really have to brainwash yourself and start completely over in how you think and play. Guys coming from 14.1 probably make the transition easiest, don't you think?

Skin

Point well taken Skin. In pointing out the top players, I guess I omitted 14.1, and Bank players strictly based on numbers. There are simply so many more 9/10 ball player's on the brink of top level pool, than the other two games.
Don't you have to agree with that ?
It will be interesting to see if Archer, Strickland, and other greats, will finally
embrace 1P as they head towards the end of their prime years. I have never understood why they never cared for the game.

Dick

 

[gbru]

Another blanket statement regarding One Pocket that is not true, and that I get tired of hearing is that....

....Moving is going out of style - The up and coming young One Pocket players shoot at everything - They are playing a new super-aggressive style of One Pocket.....Don't worry old schoolers, that's a bunch of bs....

Yeah, Scott Frost and Tony Chohan shoot that style somewhat, but most other modern day young One Pocket players do not - they are very intent on learning the game and the moves completely, and they already have well rounded games - shooting, banking AND moving well - some of them are just not as widely known....Examples....

Pro Players that we all know: Gabe Owen, Larry Nevel, Alex P. SVB, etc.

Lower level Pros/Strong shortstops: Nick Vita, Sylver Ochoa, John Morra, Adam Smith, Ryan Stone, Joey Gray, Paul Song, and many more who’s names I don’t know - trust me, these young guys are moving very well (especially Nick and Sylver) - not just shooting. - watch them play if you get a chance.

- Ghost

Ps, Anybody on here who is from their area, or is familiar with one of these young guys that I mentioned - tell me what you think of his game.

OPG

I agree with your analysis overall. However, I think you left out one highly skilled player.......Corey Duel. If Cory focused on one pocket as much as he does 9 ball and golf I think he would be THE TOP PLAYER.

The 2005 match between him and Efren is one of my all time favorites.

He's stilll got many good years ahead though.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I dont think any of the young guys who are the top 1 pocket players are in their prime yet and the best is yet to come.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

OPG

I agree with your analysis overall. However, I think you left out one highly skilled player.......Corey Duel. If Cory focused on one pocket as much as he does 9 ball and golf I think he would be THE TOP PLAYER.

The 2005 match between him and Efren is one of my all time favorites.

He's stilll got many good years ahead though.

gbru......I agree with you about Corey belonging on my list - I just didn't list everybody - too lazy - I typed etc. instead.

- Ghost

 

[gulfportdoc]

It will be interesting to see if Archer, Strickland, and other greats, will finally
embrace 1P as they head towards the end of their prime years. I have never understood why they never cared for the game.

Most 9-ball devotees are not interested in much of anything that has to do with strategy, with the single exception of instances where they're forced to play safe. There is also either a direct, or indirect, attraction to the luck factor.

Of those two players, I'd guess that Archer will be the first to concentrate his attention to one-pocket. Either that, or he'll eventually just fade away, just as have many of the top 9-ballers before him. In regards Earl, I just can't see him ever sustaining the interest sufficient to devote himself to top one-pocket.

In other words, both of these men have more than enough skill to play top one-pocket, but I don't know if the attraction is there.

Doc

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Another blanket statement/statements regarding One Pocket that is not true, and that I get tired of hearing is that....

...."Moving is going out of style" - "The up and coming young One Pocket players shoot at everything" - "They are all playing a new super-aggressive style of One Pocket".....well, that's a bunch of bs....

Yeah, Scott Frost and Tony Chohan shoot that very aggressive style, but most other modern day young One Pocket players do not - they are not firing at everything - they are very intent on correctly learning the game and the moves completely, and they already have well rounded games - shooting, banking, and moving well - some of these younger players are already well known, and some of them are not widely known yet.....Examples >>>

Pro Players that we do all know: Gabe Owen, Larry Nevel, Alex P. SVB, etc.

Lower level Pros/Strong shortstops: Nick Vita, Sylver Ochoa, Chris Gentile, Adam Smith, Ryan Stone, Joey Gray, Paul Song, and a few more who’s names I don’t remember - trust me, these young guys are moving very well (especially Nick and Sylver) - not just shooting...watch them play if you get a chance.

- Ghost

Ps, Anybody on here who is from their area, or is familiar with one of these young guys that I mentioned - tell me what you think of his game.

This was a thread that I put up 4 years ago, to refute the often repeated incorrect statement, about how all the up-and-coming young One Pocket players nowadays are all about shooting - instead of moving...

And also notice the Ghost's clocking/predicting the future of a few young players, who were not very familiar names to most 4 years ago >>> Chris Gentile (in the final of the U.S. Open One Pocket this year) - Ryan Stone (in the final of the Tunica Southern Classic One Pocket this year)- Joey Gray (in the final of the Derby City One Pocket this year)....

 

[tylerdurden]

gbru......I agree with you about Corey belonging on my list - I just didn't list everybody - too lazy - I typed etc. instead.

- Ghost

Somehow schmidt always gets left off these lists too, perhaps that is because he knows how to lay it down Further, if there were any decent money in pool, I know a guy like him could be playing/studying/learning to play one hole at a level that only few have reached, ever. He has all the tools, intelligence etc, the financial motivation is the only thing missing. Some people scoff at that, not me, money makes the world go round... if it aint there, you dont get to see nothin.

Anyway, I agree with the overall sentiment, these guys are playing one hole no doubt.

As to what games best help you, the game of pure execution is the one that helps you the most. If you execute, it don't matter what game you play, you'll be winning. All things being equal though, I would think 14.1 would be the most helpful myself.

 

[lll]

speaking of moving i saw alex play ochoa in an early round
it took 45 minutes to get from the break to an up table game
and another 45 minutes to end the game
the game was a thing of beauty if you love moving
each player grinding to get the slightest position advantage
at one point it was minus 5 to minus 2
alex had the minus 5
ultimately alex won that game but sylver won the set 3-1
they started at 10 am and finished at 1:30 pm...

 

[tonygreen]

Sounds like a great match ... will make a good DVD