LSJohn
Verified Member
OK, I'm repeating myself, but what happened to "no harm, no foul"? Isn't the idea of not punishing for an inadvertent, minor, not-shooting-related error aimed at fairness?
Rules question!
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NH Steve
Administrator
I would say the distinction here is, in this case there was a foul -- apparently unrelated to bumping the ball into the pocket. If there had been no foul -- playing standard "cue ball fouls only" rules, the ball would be restored. I believe I misspoke earlier when I said opponent's choice on whether to restore or not -- if no foul at all occurred. I believe our rules do say ball is to be restored as closely as possible.
cincy_kid
Verified Member
That's what I was thinking if its your opponents game ball, he is going to want to keep it, or maybe even if it puts him on 7 because I don't know about the rest of you but I have seen some deep balls dug out of my hole plenty of times whether its skill or pure luck so sometimes, I may want to keep the ball down too, depending how close it it inside the jaws.I would venture that often the opponent would rather have the ball restored rather than count, even though it would count for him.
I heard a story sorry I don't remember exactly where or who told it, but I believe it involved Weenie Beenie and a ball was accidentally knocked into Beenie's pocket by his opponent and when informed of the ruling, it being game ball for Beenie, he said something to the effect of, "In that case I will let it stay where it is." So sometimes that is better
LSJohn
Verified Member
Bob Jewett
Verified Member
Here is the WPA regulation covering cue ball fouls only:
21. CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
If there is no referee presiding over a match, it may be played using cue ball fouls only. That is, touching or moving any ball other than the cue ball would not be a foul unless it changes the outcome of the shot by either touching another ball or having any ball, including the cue ball, going through the area originally occupied by the moved ball. If this does not happen, then the opposing player must be given the option of either leaving the ball where it lies or replacing the ball as near as possible to its original position to the agreement of both players. If a player shoots without giving his opponent the option to replace, it will be a foul resulting in cue ball in hand for the opponent.
As you can see, they are pretty sparse. No official WPA tournament is played under this condition so far as I know.
My take: you need to add a special case for a moved ball that goes into a pocket so that the choice for the offended player is putting it back on the brink or spotting it on long string (or wherever a ball would spot under the rules of the game).
LSJohn
Verified Member
Agreed, that would be a good solution. (I was responding to Steve's view that the present rules covered the exception of knocking a ball into opp's pocket with hand or equiopment.)
LSJohn
Verified Member
Are you saying that it's a foul to accidentally knock a ball into opponent's pocket with your hand or bridge when playing cue ball fouls only?
chicagomike
Verified Member
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Good question...heck I guess not only the opponent's pocket, but any pocket?!??!?
LSJohn
Verified Member
If you knock it in the side there's no option to leave it there, so why not just spot it or replace it, no foul, and same if it goes in opp's pocket?