Wet tables

[straightback]

Okay, it's almost April in Kentucky and the humidity will be here soon. From time to time, I get involved in games where the tables goes wet. Although I consider myself a decent banker, I get extremely frustrated banking on a wet table. Usually, I start off trying to systematically shoot them longer. I seldom get reliable results, so I then slow the banks down and try to simplify things. Problem is, while the rails play fast, the cloth is now slow and cloth is real grabby, preventing my slow banks from going in unless they completely swish.

Is there something I should know, or is everyone else in the same boat?!?

Forgive me if this question has been explored before.

 

[John Brumback]

Okay, it's almost April in Kentucky and the humidity will be here soon. From time to time, I get involved in games where the tables goes wet. Although I consider myself a decent banker, I get extremely frustrated banking on a wet table. Usually, I start off trying to systematically shoot them longer. I seldom get reliable results, so I then slow the banks down and try to simplify things. Problem is, while the rails play fast, the cloth is now slow and cloth is real grabby, preventing my slow banks from going in unless they completely swish.

Is there something I should know, or is everyone else in the same boat?!?

Forgive me if this question has been explored before.

Good question.Very tough conditions to play under. I would say play tight, scared and out move him,and yes take some speed off to let them open just a little. Hope that helps. JB

 

[fred bentivegna]

Okay, it's almost April in Kentucky and the humidity will be here soon. From time to time, I get involved in games where the tables goes wet. Although I consider myself a decent banker, I get extremely frustrated banking on a wet table. Usually, I start off trying to systematically shoot them longer. I seldom get reliable results, so I then slow the banks down and try to simplify things. Problem is, while the rails play fast, the cloth is now slow and cloth is real grabby, preventing my slow banks from going in unless they completely swish.

Is there something I should know, or is everyone else in the same boat?!?

Forgive me if this question has been explored before.

Straightback, you have already identified one of the key components in playing on a wet table, and that is, when wet, THE RAILS PLAY MUCH LIVELIER, BUT THE CLOTH PLAYS MUCH SLOWER. Believe it or not, not many players realize that the rails play livelier. Throw, english, follow, and draw, burn up very quickly on wet cloth.

However, if english on the cue ball or object ball, makes it all the way to the cushion, whatever is on the ball will "take" more off of the now live cushion. That's why it is so easy to pinch a bank shot.

Beard

 

[gulfportdoc]

Here in coastal Mississippi we have that problem 8-9 months of the year. In July-September the tables are practically unplayable. Shooting at firm speed length of the table to the rail, one can hear the ball hop off the cushion. The problem is that the owner won't turn on the full A/C until late in the day, so the tables don't dry out until late in the evening (when Doc isn't there).

I've just learned to play all the banks long. That's usually all that's needed, although sometimes outside english is required as well.

The regulars get used to it. In fact it's a decided advantage over the players from drier rooms who come to compete. But after getting used to the short angles and lively rails, then for the regulars to travel to play in normal conditions takes a tremendous amount of adjusting.

Even the effective pocket openings are affected. A 4-5/8" pocket will play like a 4" pocket or less, because if a ball catches a rail on the way in, the ball will hang. So in that case, travelling to play on a dry table, say at DCC, the pockets seem much larger. It's just that everything else has changed too...

~Doc

 

[John Brumback]

Here in coastal Mississippi we have that problem 8-9 months of the year. In July-September the tables are practically unplayable. Shooting at firm speed length of the table to the rail, one can hear the ball hop off the cushion. The problem is that the owner won't turn on the full A/C until late in the day, so the tables don't dry out until late in the evening (when Doc isn't there).

I've just learned to play all the banks long. That's usually all that's needed, although sometimes outside english is required as well.

The regulars get used to it. In fact it's a decided advantage over the players from drier rooms who come to compete. But after getting used to the short angles and lively rails, then for the regulars to travel to play in normal conditions takes a tremendous amount of adjusting.

Even the effective pocket openings are affected. A 4-5/8" pocket will play like a 4" pocket or less, because if a ball catches a rail on the way in, the ball will hang. So in that case, travelling to play on a dry table, say at DCC, the pockets seem much larger. It's just that everything else has changed too...

~Doc

Very well said..Doc ! Your purty smart for a pool player JB

 

[John Brumback]

Straightback, you have already identified one of the key components in playing on a wet table, and that is, when wet, THE RAILS PLAY MUCH LIVELIER, BUT THE CLOTH PLAYS MUCH SLOWER. Believe it or not, not many players realize that the rails play livelier. Throw, english, follow, and draw, burn up very quickly on wet cloth.

However, if english on the cue ball or object ball, makes it all the way to the cushion, whatever is on the ball will "take" more off of the now live cushion. That's why it is so easy to pinch a bank shot.

Beard

"pinch" is that the same thing we call "stiff" down here in KY ? Your talking about holding the bank.. right? JB

 

[fred bentivegna]

"pinch" is that the same thing we call "stiff" down here in KY ? Your talking about holding the bank.. right? JB

Pinch and stiff -- same thing.

Beard

 

[gulfportdoc]

Very well said..Doc ! Your purty smart for a pool player JB

To be honest, it's the other way around... And I've come to the conclusion that intelligence is more of a liability rather than an asset to playing pool well.

Doc

 

[John Brumback]

To be honest, it's the other way around... And I've come to the conclusion that intelligence is more of a liability rather than an asset to playing pool well.

Doc

Oh I agree. I've been saying the same thing for years.( I'm dumb,just to get that out of the way:lol ) It pays to be dumb ( or act like it) when your playing most any sport IMO. I never could understand how some people can remember most every shot and match while they are playing the match or game. ( I don't mean to say that memory equates to being dumb or not however ) I have a hunch it might hender sp? somes play tho.

This is what I tell a good buddy of mine...." your to smart to learn " I seem to see this trait in alot of folks trying to get good at say....pool :lol Sometimes when I'm doing lessons,I have to ask the student if he is teaching me or am I teaching him:lol I don't really ask them that, but there has been quite a few times I wanted to tho:lol JB

 

[NH Steve]

Wet tables

I remember interviewing Eddie Taylor I was amazed at how he could remember some whole sequences of shots from 50 years ago!!

 

[NH Steve]

Wet tables

He had some famous wet table shots -- one that I heard told was from Johnston City, guys were trying to make the four railer that is like a short three to the side but instead if going in the side it goes one extra rail into the far corner. No one could make it. Taylor bet he could and once he had takers he said he needed 20 minutes or so. During which time he open the outside door so that the moisture from outside got in and changed the table. Naturally he swished it once the table was damp enough.

PS this is probably a Freddy story -- I certainly was not there

 

[straightback]

To be honest, it's the other way around... And I've come to the conclusion that intelligence is more of a liability rather than an asset to playing pool well.

Doc

I strongly agree with this statement. It was brought to my attention when a pro was giving me lessons. He's also a friend, and he observed one day, "You know, Dan, you might be too smart to play competitive pool. Quit thinking about all of the specifics and just do it." He guessed that most top players had only average IQ's.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I strongly agree with this statement. It was brought to my attention when a pro was giving me lessons. He's also a friend, and he observed one day, "You know, Dan, you might be too smart to play competitive pool. Quit thinking about all of the specifics and just do it." He guessed that most top players had only average IQ's.

Yes, and I think there's a distinction between playing well and playing well competitively. Intelligence is definitely not an asset for being a tough competitor; whereas it might be a good asset in matching up. There are loads of cunning people who are not necessarily high I.Q. types.

What's important for simply playing pool at a high level is good hand/eye coordination, along with a very acute capacity for spatial analysis and feel.

So, IMO, the ability to compete successfully and to be able to negotiate, bait & trap are talents in addition to high level good play.

~Doc

 

[straightback]

Yes, and I think there's a distinction between playing well and playing well competitively. Intelligence is definitely not an asset for being a tough competitor; whereas it might be a good asset in matching up. There are loads of cunning people who are not necessarily high I.Q. types.

What's important for simply playing pool at a high level is good hand/eye coordination, along with a very acute capacity for spatial analysis and feel.

So, IMO, the ability to compete successfully and to be able to negotiate, bait & trap are talents in addition to high level good play.

~Doc

It's hard to explain, exactly, but I think that sheer confidence and bravado are much more valuable in competition than higher-order thinking! Sometimes I think it would be nice to trade in some of my lengthy education for a more uncomplicated mindset as regards pool. Maybe it's what attracts us to one pocket? Dunno bout you guys, but I simply cannot watch or play low brow games like 9- or 10-ball. If I do, it is because I am enamored with a player's stroke, not the game. Safety battles are the only part I like.

Well, Doc, I think we agree that our games suffer from hypersufficient neural networks - what's everyone else's excuse?!?

 

[NH Steve]

It's hard to explain, exactly, but I think that sheer confidence and bravado are much more valuable in competition than higher-order thinking! Sometimes I think it would be nice to trade in some of my lengthy education for a more uncomplicated mindset as regards pool. Maybe it's what attracts us to one pocket? Dunno bout you guys, but I simply cannot watch or play low brow games like 9- or 10-ball. If I do, it is because I am enamored with a player's stroke, not the game. Safety battles are the only part I like.

Well, Doc, I think we agree that our games suffer from hypersufficient neural networks - what's everyone else's excuse?!?

I'd count myself in too, except I don't know what "hypersufficient neural networks" means -- probably that I don't qualify, lol.

 

[gulfportdoc]

It's hard to explain, exactly, but I think that sheer confidence and bravado are much more valuable in competition than higher-order thinking! Sometimes I think it would be nice to trade in some of my lengthy education for a more uncomplicated mindset as regards pool. Maybe it's what attracts us to one pocket? Dunno bout you guys, but I simply cannot watch or play low brow games like 9- or 10-ball. If I do, it is because I am enamored with a player's stroke, not the game. Safety battles are the only part I like.

Well, Doc, I think we agree that our games suffer from hypersufficient neural networks - what's everyone else's excuse?!?

Ditto, bro. An aggrandized ego appearing as confidence is hugely beneficial to a player; as long as that state of mind is not apt to be deflated by anger, resentment or self-recrimination. (Some players are egomaniacs with inferiority complexes)

Notable players of that ilk that come to mind are Cornbread Red, Earl Strickland, and Chris Gentile (RA and McCready qualify too). Then there are guys who keep it quiet, but just relentlessly keep coming at you, e.g. vintage Buddy Hall, Joyner, and Bernie Pettipiece.

But I'd happily forsake all of it for the continual ability to execute each shot with mindlessness, and to be able to shrug off all mishaps.

Doc

 

[straightback]

Ditto, bro. An aggrandized ego appearing as confidence is hugely beneficial to a player; as long as that state of mind is not apt to be deflated by anger, resentment or self-recrimination. (Some players are egomaniacs with inferiority complexes)

Notable players of that ilk that come to mind are Cornbread Red, Earl Strickland, and Chris Gentile (RA and McCready qualify too). Then there are guys who keep it quiet, but just relentlessly keep coming at you, e.g. vintage Buddy Hall, Joyner, and Bernie Pettipiece.

But I'd happily forsake all of it for the continual ability to execute each shot with mindlessness, and to be able to shrug off all mishaps.

Doc

Maybe we can start a pool school for highly functional professionals? First day - labotomy.
I think your taxonomy above is spot on. Earl is definitely the exemplar - he has plenty of id.

 

[WhatWouldWojoDo]

The tables here in GA can get bad too. This past month or so we've had the 'april showers' which change the way the tables play. I just try to find how the 'natural' speed rolls and make the adjustments accordingly.

Thanks for all the insight/information on this, should help me adjust even quicker under these kinds of conditions.

 

[backplaying]

Speaking of IQ, how would you relate someone's IQ who does everything well? I've noticed many players do everything they get into better than most. Do you think IQ comes into play at all, or just desire and eye and hand coordination?