Senior One Pocket at the DCC

vapros · Jul 15, 2009

Man, somebody needs to hijack this thread right now. I can see another infinite hassle coming up. I never realized it could be done online.

I cut the grass yesterday. Got most of it done and the mower broke down. Won't crank. I hope it's not dead. We have been above 95 degrees in south Louisiana for about eighteen of the last twenty days, and that's brutal. Too hot to go outside. For those of you who don't know, we don't use the same degrees that are used in Phoenix. There's something different about ours. Dick, can you explain about that for this audience? I know that you were an honorary coonass, at least for a while.

What do you guys think? Ain't this an improvement?

Peace! Riiiight!

SJDinPHX · Jul 15, 2009

My last word on the subject...!

Why don't you ask some one like Parica or Busty or Efren, how much of a premium they'd be willing to pay, to gain entry into a tournament with a decent payoff, where the field consisted mainly of guys "way over the hill"....guy's they would not hesitate to give 9 to 6 for the cash. (Scott Frost and Gus B, do it here, on a weekly basis, against weaker fields.)
They would break their arms getting to their wallet.
Those guy's will STILL be strong favorites...they will just have to pay a surcharge for "stealing"

They would be the first ones to pony up extra EF's. Its only the mediocre playing 60 year olds that cannot see the fairness in a graduated entry fee. And just like the DCC, their chances of cashing are not good anyway.(names upon request)

ONE (and only one) guy has been mentioned as being still fairly comptetive at 70, and he definately is.
John H. is a rare bird, who would be a real contender in any senior event. He also loves to play enough, to often take the worst of it.
When the field is dropped to the strong players players in their early 60's, he becomes fodder too, and he knows it.
But I'm sure he'll belly up and play, and so will I. ( I just won't go as quietly...sorry)

I guess we should just drop it to 50 yrs. then... so every still active, tournament tough player could just heist the geriatric set.
Then we could all just say, "Well, I went 2 and out...but I got to play Varner,(or Buddy) and he didn't skunk me"..... Sorry, thats NOT where I get my jolly's in tournaments.

Some of you may be missing the point entirely, but I can see the mindset here, so I shall not suggest anything remotely "different" from what might be considered "leveling the playing field"...at least cashwise !

Dick

"No more INK from ME" !!..."The Beard" (the Ink Nazi)

Fanatic · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
My last word on the subject...!Why don't you ask some one like* Parica or Busty or Efren, how much of a premium they'd be willing to pay, to gain entry into a tournament with a decent payoff, where the field consisted mainly of guys "way over the hill"....guy's they would not hesitate to give 9 to 6 for the cash. They would break their arms getting to their wallet.They would be the first ones to pony up extra EF's. Its only the mediocre playing 60 year olds that cannot see the fairness in a graduated entry fee. And just like the DCC, their chances of cashing are not good anyway.(names upon request)ONE guy has been mentioned as being still fairly comptetive at 70, and he is. John H. is a rare bird, who would be a real contender in any senior event. He also loves to play enough, to often take the worst of it.When the field is dropped to the strong players players in their early 60's, he becomes fodder too, and he knows it. But I'm sure he'll belly up and play, and so will I. ( I just won't go as quietly...sorry)I guess we should just drop it to 50 yrs. then... so every still active, tournament tough player could just heist the geriatric set. Then we could all just say, "Well, I went 2 and out...but I got to play Varner,(or Buddy) and he didn't skunk me"..... Sorry, thats NOT where I get my jolly's in tournaments.Some of you may be missing the missing the point entirely, but I can see the mindset here, so I shall not suggest anything remotely "different" from what might be considered "leveling the playing field"...at least cashwise !

I dont understand why you would even consider 62 and over;. even if they ponied up an extra EF. This is a seniors match; the ages should range between 65-75 years in age; still a lot of great players in this range and not a big swing in ability; I've gotten my little whippersnapper butt kicked by plenty of "seniors" the concepts and skills are still there regardless of age maybe a miss here and there but other than that the older guys play some of the best one pocket; if spectators want to see run outs they can watch the 9/10ball matches; I envision this being top notch skillfull play .And as a note I dont see any blind handicapped people entering; you're going to get good strong guys that can still play some --so no need to weight it ; thats were the complications start. imho
xoxo

lll · Jul 15, 2009

fanny if they limit the ages to 65-75 sjd only has a few more months of eligibility

jay helfert · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
My last word on the subject...!

Why don't you ask some one like Parica or Busty or Efren, how much of a premium they'd be willing to pay, to gain entry into a tournament with a decent payoff, where the field consisted mainly of guys "way over the hill"....guy's they would not hesitate to give 9 to 6 for the cash. (Scott Frost and Gus B, do it here, on a weekly basis, against weaker fields.)
They would break their arms getting to their wallet.
Those guy's will STILL be strong favorites...they will just have to pay a surcharge for "stealing"

They would be the first ones to pony up extra EF's. Its only the mediocre playing 60 year olds that cannot see the fairness in a graduated entry fee. And just like the DCC, their chances of cashing are not good anyway.(names upon request)

ONE (and only one) guy has been mentioned as being still fairly comptetive at 70, and he definately is.
John H. is a rare bird, who would be a real contender in any senior event. He also loves to play enough, to often take the worst of it.
When the field is dropped to the strong players players in their early 60's, he becomes fodder too, and he knows it.
But I'm sure he'll belly up and play, and so will I. ( I just won't go as quietly...sorry)

I guess we should just drop it to 50 yrs. then... so every still active, tournament tough player could just heist the geriatric set.
Then we could all just say, "Well, I went 2 and out...but I got to play Varner,(or Buddy) and he didn't skunk me"..... Sorry, thats NOT where I get my jolly's in tournaments.

Some of you may be missing the point entirely, but I can see the mindset here, so I shall not suggest anything remotely "different" from what might be considered "leveling the playing field"...at least cashwise !

Dick

"No more INK from ME" !!..."The Beard" (the Ink Nazi)

I'm beginning to see Artie's point about matching up with you. You do like having a little bit the best of it. Using your argument, a 50 year old should be paying less money to play in an open tournament with all those young guns in their 20's and 30's.

I am a mediocre playing 60 year old and I can absolutely see the advantage I would have paying a lesser entry fee. It means I would be saving money! By the way I have cashed at DCC and other events after I turned 50. I made the seventh round of the Banks a few years back. You can look it up.

True, there are several 60+ players who can still give me a ball or two at One Pocket, but I have no problem playing them even in a Race to Three. It ain't like we're betting the Moon here. It's a stinkin' entry fee. Maybe we should make it the same as the regular DCC entry fee, about $250. Then more players will jump in just to say they played. Greg will probably still add a little juice to make it fly.

P.S. Like Ghosty, I love playing good players in a tourney. I even beat a couple once or twice before. I made Parica bear down hard in our little One Pocket confab.

jrhendy · Jul 15, 2009

jay helfert said:
I am a mediocre playing 60 year old and I can absolutely see the advantage I would have paying a lesser entry fee. It means I would be saving money! By the way I have cashed at DCC and other events after I turned 50. I made the seventh round of the Banks a few years back. You can look it up.

Jay, if you are mediocre for 60 it's because you are not playing much. You always hit em pretty good when you were putting the time in.

I made the 7th round last year at age 69, but I was very lucky. I had one forfeit and my other matches were with older guys like myself. When I finally ran into some younger real bank pool players, Randy Vaughn from Tn and Biloxi Mike from Ms, they smoked me.

I love the competition and I will play no matter what the format, but think I have a real chance at 65 and over would and like to compete with guys at or near my age to see how I would do. That would be a REAL seniors tournament.

SJDinPHX · Jul 15, 2009

jay helfert said:
I'm beginning to see Artie's point about matching up with you. You do like having a little bit the best of it. Using your argument, a 50 year old should be paying less money to play in an open tournament with all those young guns in their 20's and 30's.

I am a mediocre playing 60 year old and I can absolutely see the advantage I would have paying a lesser entry fee. It means I would be saving money! By the way I have cashed at DCC and other events after I turned 50. I made the seventh round of the Banks a few years back. You can look it up.

True, there are several 60+ players who can still give me a ball or two at One Pocket, but I have no problem playing them even in a Race to Three. It ain't like we're betting the Moon here. It's a stinkin' entry fee. Maybe we should make it the same as the regular DCC entry fee, about $250. Then more players will jump in just to say they played. Greg will probably still add a little juice to make it fly.

P.S. Like Ghosty, I love playing good players in a tourney. I even beat a couple once or twice before. I made Parica bear down hard in our little One Pocket confab.

I can see why, YOU can see Artie's point, Jay.
You argue much like he does. You choose to ignore the things that make sense (see first paragraph in my post) and get in as many zingers as you can while pounding away at your point. Are you sure you aren't a carney ?

Oh, and thanks for calling ME a "nut hunter" and HIM, a reasonable person in the context of matching up.

PS Argumentative, maybe. Slate-headed, probably. "Nut-hunter"....not in this lifetime !

lll · Jul 15, 2009

vapros said:
Man, somebody needs to hijack this thread right now. I can see another infinite hassle coming up. I never realized it could be done online.

I cut the grass yesterday. Got most of it done and the mower broke down. Won't crank. I hope it's not dead. We have been above 95 degrees in south Louisiana for about eighteen of the last twenty days, and that's brutal. Too hot to go outside. For those of you who don't know, we don't use the same degrees that are used in Phoenix. There's something different about ours. Dick, can you explain about that for this audience? I know that you were an honorary coonass, at least for a while.

What do you guys think? Ain't this an improvement? Peace! Riiiight!

weather in florida has also been hot, hot , hot. heat index into the 100,s. makes you want to be inside to sweat the seniors invitational

Artie Bodendorfer · Jul 15, 2009

lll said:
weather in florida has also been hot, hot , hot. heat index into the 100,s. makes you want to be inside to sweat the seniors invitational

Rather then just focusing on the age. I think its important that we get people who desierve it and have a history behind them. Ronnie called me and said it would be a great Idea to get 16 older players to play in las vagas and have Tv or whoever wants to sponsers the tournement. To get all the players to put up 1 thousand dollaers for the tournement. And I said maybe someone will pay each player 5 or ten thousand dollaers for playing in the tournement. And it could be legends or hall of famers or just a great pool caracter. Like Harry Platus and make a list of names. Who will play and let the players vote on who should be in it. You could make a board of Grady Ronnie Freddy Squarell SJD Dannie Delaberto Eddy Kelly Pittsburg Billy and one more in case of a 4 to 4 vote. 16 players would work very well. And someone could take a picture of all 16 players. And it will go down in history. And sell individual pictures and dvds of the games. And extra photos. And it could be held in one of the big casinos in Las Vagas. THis was Ronnies Idea not mein. I think it could work. And If we get a sponser who wants to pay all the players for comming. Everyone would be a winner. And maybe fat boy has some Ideas too. BUt If we get sponsered it could turn out real good. And all the foucus would be on the 16 players. This is what I think would be great. If we can put it together. And Ronnie said he had someone who would put up money for this tournement. I just thought this would be a good time to bring it up. We can make it happen or we can let it pass us by. And dont just foucus on the age . Foucus on making it great and a memorey for life. And as we get older the pictures will be more valuble. Because of all the history the players will have.

wincardona · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
Some food for thought Steve L.

Base entry fee,(E.F.).....(arbitrary) $ 500 (or more)

The guy's 60 to 64/11 mos., pay 7/5ths of the base E.F.($700)

The guy's 65 to 69/11 mos, pay the base E.F. ($500)

Guy's 70 to 74/11 mos., pay 3/5ths of base entry fee. ($300)

75 to 80 pay 2/5ths of base E.F. ($200)

Over 80, buys coffee and do-nuts for his E.F.

This is a graduated E.F system, that has had some success here in the Phx area. (however only in 9/10 ball, based on player rating) The winner will almost certainly come from the younger group, especially in this situation.

There will be instances where a guy 70, may play as well as a guy 60, the guy 60, will have to weigh his options, depending on the field, and may not want to pay the premium E.F. That is no different than the bulk of the 300 plus entries at the DCC. They know they probably will not cash, they just want to compete.
In a field of 16 players, pay down 8 places. with a top heavy, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.

It may look complicated, but its not. The older guys are getting odds on the money, which in a short race, is not near as good as getting the balls (or games on the wire) most younger, better player's would be giving up.

PS This is only a SUGGESTION, I WILL NOT SPEND MUCH TME DEFENDING IT!!...lots of things might work better, but if we're going to do this thing..we need to see whats out there to make it a good fair competition. It will certainly make it more attractive for the "well over 60" crowd. (I do not turn 75 'til Sept 24)

I like your suggestion on the format, but I don't think it's going to happen, at least not right now. In a local tournament where you are limited on how many players you can draw from, it is understandable why it would be an advantage for keeping the tournament working. But when your talking about a once a year tournament where you have the world to draw from, your suggestion is too accommodating for the lesser skilled, older players. Open tournaments were never meant to accommodate certain people, they were offered to the players that qualified with the usual guidelines. I like your suggestion and would love to pay a lesser entry fee, but I think there would be a lot of complainers, bogus ID cards, and a lot of confusion that would create problems. So my answer to the lesser skilled older player is to belly up, you aint no virgin and go for it.

SJDinPHX · Jul 15, 2009

wincardona said:
I like your suggestion on the format, but I don't think it's going to happen, at least not right now. In a local tournament where you are limited on how many players you can draw from, it is understandable why it would be an advantage for keeping the tournament working. But when your talking about a once a year tournament where you have the world to draw from, your suggestion is too accommodating for the lesser skilled, older players. Open tournaments were never meant to accommodate certain people, they were offered to the players that qualified with the usual guidelines. I like your suggestion and would love to pay a lesser entry fee, but I think there would be a lot of complainers, bogus ID cards, and a lot of confusion that would create problems. So my answer to the lesser skilled older player is to belly up, you aint no virgin and go for it.

Finally, a logical response. I agree with you Billy and realize now that it would pobably not work in the context of a yearly get together.
I knew, when I brought it up, there would be the usual cast of naysayer's, but I did not think it would be so hotly contested by some.

I am now working on height,weight, IQ, and number of surgical procedures, as a possible way to gain an edge. Age discrimination did not work !

As a last resort, I may try high-rolling. (thats worked a few times)

Dick <---actually is a virgin...is also lesser skilled, and old,....but will damn sure play !

Fast Lenny · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
I can see why, YOU can see Artie's point, Jay.
You argue much like he does. You choose to ignore the things that make sense (see first paragraph in my post) and get in as many zingers as you can while pounding away at your point. Are you sure you aren't a carney ?

Oh, and thanks for calling ME a "nut hunter" and HIM, a reasonable person in the context of matching up.

PS Argumentative, maybe. Slate-headed, probably. "Nut-hunter"....not in this lifetime !

Will vouch for Dick not being a nut hunter, he plays bad games all the time!

One Pocket Ghost · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
I did not think it would be so hotly contested by some.

I only "hotly contested" it, because it presented such a good opportunity to needle you a little.....

- Ghosty

Cowboy Dennis · Jul 15, 2009

One Pocket Ghost said:
I only "hotly contested" it, because it presented such a good opportunity to needle you a little.....

- Ghosty

Yeah, that's what I would say if he ever called me out on it.

fred bentivegna · Jul 15, 2009

Talked to Sullivan

Talked to Sullivan

Just got off the phone with Greg Sullivan and he says he would be up for our little deal. He asked me if I would run, name, front, and organize it. I didnt give him an answer. He also said that it would probably have to go on as a late event. Midnight. That doesnt sit well with me as I usually go to bed now around 9pm. How does midnight sound to everybody else? I personally think that even if we started that late we would need at least two nights to finish it off, figuring about 5 hrs a night for a 16 player board. A bigger board might not work out at all.

the Beard

The Rascals of the Road Senior One Pocket Event?

Fanatic · Jul 15, 2009

lll said:
fanny if they limit the ages to 65-75 sjd only has a few more months of eligibility

Certainly anyone over 75 could play; this was just a base range however anyone under 65 should be ineligible. The only other way I see to accommodate the players in their 70's is to maybe do two seperate events --a 62(or 65)-69 senior event (anyone above 69 may participate if they wish) and an additional 70+ super seniors event

XOXO
Fanny

Cowboy Dennis · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
Finally, a logical response. :

I guess that completely agreeing with you (post #19) doesn't qualify as a "logical response". I'm sharpening up my needles and barbs now.

SJDinPHX · Jul 15, 2009

fred bentivegna said:
Just got off the phone with Greg Sullivan and he says he would be up for our little deal. He asked me if I would run, name, front, and organize it. I didnt give him an answer. He also said that it would probably have to go on as a late event. Midnight. That doesnt sit well with me as I usually go to bed now around 9pm. How does midnight sound to everybody else? I personally think that even if we started that late we would need at least two nights to finish it off, figuring about 5 hrs a night for a 16 player board. A bigger board might not work out at all.

the Beard

The Rascals of the Road Senior One Pocket Event?

Thanks for inquiring Fred, but please understand my reluctance to respond.

If I say "Sounds good to me"...Ghost will say, "Sure, SJD is trying to take advantage of us because he's on West Coast time, thats only 9 PM to him."

If I say " I don't like it"...Jay will say, "Sure, SJD is trying to impose his will on us, He knows Artie and I prefer late night marathons".

So I shall just remain meekly silent on the issue, and let them decide my fate.

Dick <---is vewy afwaid THEY may not agree on the issue. Who decides then...Fanatic and Dennis ?

Sheesh...They aren't even old enough to vote...aargh !!!

Cowboy Dennis · Jul 15, 2009

SJDinPHX said:
Dick <---is vewy afwaid THEY may not agree on the issue. Who decides then...Fanatic and Dennis ?
Sheesh...They aren't even old enough to vote...aargh !!!

Oh yes, my needles and barbs are almost sharp. They'll be ready in a few minutes.

And what's with the aargh? Are you a pirate now?

SJDinPHX · Jul 15, 2009

Cowboy Dennis said:
I guess that completely agreeing with you (post #19) doesn't qualify as a "logical response". I'm sharpening up my needles and barbs now.

I know your not going to believe this....but I actually missed Your #19, and Fred's #20 ...sorry. Good to know there are now 2 1/2 voices of reason.

PS I was pre-occupied with two 60 year old whiney cats.

Senior One Pocket at the DCC

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