Do you put 'em back?

[chicagomike]

One-pocket rules are there for a reason. If you start moving the remaining balls on the table, the game is over. If you haven't made enough to win, you lose. I don't think it would be a good idea to stretch this point and try to relace the pattern, as this could certainly open another disagreement, besides being a departure from the rules.

Friendship is a whole 'nother smoke and should be dealt with separately. Do what you think you should, but don't call it one-pocket.

And always put the marker(s) on the rail. If he doesn't do it, do it for him. If he has trouble seeing the coin, use a ham sandwich, or something he can't miss.

I like the ham sandwich idea..next time I'll pack a lunch.

 

[lll]

. I never win a discussion and never lose a customer, same way in business. The second time on anything vaguely similar I never lose the discussion. If it causes an argument then we wern't really reasonable.
Rod.
PS; Playing with a stranger, it's always been a loss.

rod as always sage advice.

 

[beatle]

i guess technically you are right to take the win on the game you would surely lose had he not made an innocent mistake. but if i knew my opponent calls all rules then if i play him he isnt going to win, ever.
if this was a technical fould in the early stages of the game that is a little different but to take a win away can do nothing but infuriate your opponent. if thats okay or he understands it then do it.
there arent many good customers in pool that will gamble with you so losing one over a game isnt always the best marketing strategy. think short term or long term. give him his 20 back and you are still ahead the twenty you would have lost.

 

[wincardona]

I like your prospective

I like your prospective

i guess technically you are right to take the win on the game you would surely lose had he not made an innocent mistake. but if i knew my opponent calls all rules then if i play him he isnt going to win, ever.
if this was a technical fould in the early stages of the game that is a little different but to take a win away can do nothing but infuriate your opponent. if thats okay or he understands it then do it.
there arent many good customers in pool that will gamble with you so losing one over a game isnt always the best marketing strategy. think short term or long term. give him his 20 back and you are still ahead the twenty you would have lost.

I agree, if your decision is one that you will lose or possibly lose your opponent with ( providing it's a sociable game )I would call it a no contest and rack the balls for the next game. But I would mention to him that if this should happen again, either way it's loss of game.

If I was playing someone that knows the rule and gambling high, LOSS OF GAME PERIOD.

 

[beatle]

okay here is the rule.

10.2 If the shooting player disturbs only one of the remaining balls on the table under their own mistaken assumption that the game is over, play continues under the terms of rule 6.1. However, if the shooting player disturbs two or more of the remaining balls in play on their own mistaken assumption that the game is over, then it is the shooting player that forfeits the game.

so it is clear it is loss of game. but during the game the rules say you put balls back if knocked around. it isnt a foul to accidentally move balls.

i guess if you are going to play by strict rules you should have a copy with you and agree to play by them.

you do have to realize that playing a pro or experienced gambling player, you treat the rules different than if playing a friend or live one. that is if you like money.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I learnt this lesson at the DCC, and will never do it again.

I played John Brumback in the fifth round, and was down 2-1.

I owed a ball early in the rack, and after a couple of sateties I saw a crazy combination in the pack, and went for it. Made it and I ran the table, and had position to run atleast 12-13 balls the way it was spread.

After I had ran 8 I went to the tray and checked the balls I had, so did he, and then I raked the balls. Nothing was said.

When finished racking and I was walking over to break, we both noticed the coin, and didn't know what to do. We called the tournament director, and he decided that I lost the game, and then lost the match 3-1 instead of it being 2-2 and my break.

I still feel that I should have been allowed to atleast play the rack again, since John didn't say anything before I had finished the racking, but in the end it is the tournament director who's the boss, so I went for a cold Budweiser.

 

[chicagomike]

Looks like the verdict is shaping up to be it's clearly an oversight on the part of my opponent resulting in a loss... I think the $20 price tag will stand. I expect we will play again and expect the same should I rake prematurely.

After all the input I have decided I would feel better about it if we just replayed the game...I didn't think about that option at the time and don't enjoy "sticking it" to friends.

 

[chicagomike]

Once again I can see the members 1p.org are pretty good guys with a real sense of sportsmanship...but as true as that may be,you know what they say... "Don't mistake kindness for weakness".

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I learnt this lesson at the DCC, and will never do it again.

I played John Brumback in the fifth round, and was down 2-1.

I owed a ball early in the rack, and after a couple of sateties I saw a crazy combination in the pack, and went for it. Made it and I ran the table, and had position to run atleast 12-13 balls the way it was spread.

After I had ran 8 I went to the tray and checked the balls I had, so did he, and then I raked the balls. Nothing was said.

When finished racking and I was walking over to break, we both noticed the coin, and didn't know what to do. We called the tournament director, and he decided that I lost the game, and then lost the match 3-1 instead of it being 2-2 and my break.

I still feel that I should have been allowed to atleast play the rack again, since John didn't say anything before I had finished the racking, but in the end it is the tournament director who's the boss, so I went for a cold Budweiser.

Let the referee do some work. If a player owes one or two balls. The refere has to get the ball or balls that you owe and spot it after the inning. What if a player walks up to the table after you run 8 and out and drops a coin on your side and says you owe a ball. And thier is no way to go back and check it what happines then. Thats why you need the referee to control the balls owed. Because thats just one move thier are meny more. But I dont want people to start looking for angles to win. But to win legit by playing the game fair. And if the session is 2 to to and you ran 8 and out the 5 game to win the match. And the player says you owed a ball. What happines thier who gets the win// And this is a good one. Especialy if you are playing a intimedating person. What would you do if you are the refferre.THats why the reff needs to take the first ball the player runs ans hold it to spot. Keep the game legit and above board.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Let the referee do some work. If a player owes one or two balls. The refere has to get the ball or balls that you owe and spot it after the inning. What if a player walks up to the table after you run 8 and out and drops a coin on your side and says you owe a ball. And thier is no way to go back and check it what happines then. Thats why you need the referee to control the balls owed. Because thats just one move thier are meny more. But I dont want people to start looking for angles to win. But to win legit by playing the game fair. And if the session is 2 to to and you ran 8 and out the 5 game to win the match. And the player says you owed a ball. What happines thier who gets the win// And this is a good one. Especialy if you are playing a intimedating person. What would you do if you are the refferre.THats why the reff needs to take the first ball the player runs ans hold it to spot. Keep the game legit and above board.

And acording to what happened her the player running 8 and out will loose.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I agree with you Artie, but the problem at DCC is that there are 40 matches going on with 1-pocket at the same time, and they don't have referees for the tables.

But next time I play, and I owe a ball, I will give that ball to the other player and make sure that he will have to spot it for me when I finish my turn at the table.

Roy
(Ok, so now I know what to do in a situation like that - If I now only can remember that I owe a ball, I will be ok)

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I agree with you Artie, but the problem at DCC is that there are 40 matches going on with 1-pocket at the same time, and they don't have referees for the tables.

But next time I play, and I owe a ball, I will give that ball to the other player and make sure that he will have to spot it for me when I finish my turn at the table.

Roy
(Ok, so now I know what to do in a situation like that - If I now only can remember that I owe a ball, I will be ok)

If players dont want to use coins. Have a half a gold ball for a markerby your pocket and nobody will forget you owe a ball. And nobody can trick you with the coin move. What if a player owes a ball and picks up the coin and puts it in his pocket. And he says he does not owe a ball. What happines then?

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

If players dont want to use coins. Have a half a gold ball for a markerby your pocket and nobody will forget you owe a ball. And nobody can trick you with the coin move. What if a player owes a ball and picks up the coin and puts it in his pocket. And he says he does not owe a ball. What happines then?

All the times I played Bugs we never had one descripency or sleepers or racking the balls. WE never tried to move on one another.

 

[bernie p]

okay here is the rule.

10.2 If the shooting player disturbs only one of the remaining balls on the table under their own mistaken assumption that the game is over, play continues under the terms of rule 6.1. However, if the shooting player disturbs two or more of the remaining balls in play on their own mistaken assumption that the game is over, then it is the shooting player that forfeits the game.

so it is clear it is loss of game. but during the game the rules say you put balls back if knocked around. it isnt a foul to accidentally move balls.

i guess if you are going to play by strict rules you should have a copy with you and agree to play by them.

you do have to realize that playing a pro or experienced gambling player, you treat the rules different than if playing a friend or live one. that is if you like money.

Beatle,

Do I understand this correctly that the official 1P rules state that any number of balls moved during a game is not a foul, even if you move more than one?

What if you accidentally move 6 balls for example?

Thanks.

Bernie P.

 

[blackeee]

So today I'm playing $20 1p with a friend and knowledgeable player and i'm up 1 game after about 3 hours. Score is 2-0/me and he owes 1 from and earlier foul for which a penny was placed at his hole as a reminder.

He gets a good shot at his pocket and runs 8 balls, but rakes the remaining balls prior to shooting his 9th ball which he needs to win the game. I remind him of the ball owed at which he point he asks if he could replace the raked balls to near their original positions. I say it's loss of game for which is the common rule.

I wasn't trying to be sneaky, but I see that as the rule... just like 3 fouling a friend or using a ball to be spotted as a forgotten advantage. He breaks down his cue and is upset because it's friendly twenty dollar action between friends and he says he would have allowed me to replace the balls.

Anyway, I hope there are not permanent hard feelings and decided to put it in the hands of 1p.org members...if the majority consensus seems to be the balls should have been replaced and the game continued(On the basis of friendly $20 1p between friends) I will be willing to return the $20, but in the future the raking balls rule will stand

He loses the game. Period.

 

[demonrho]

...He gets a good shot at his pocket and runs 8 balls, but rakes the remaining balls prior to shooting his 9th ball which he needs to win the game. I remind him of the ball owed at which he point he asks if he could replace the raked balls to near their original positions. I say it's loss of game for which is the common rule...

Holywood Jack taught me that the rule in this case is - if he's a regular customer you let him do whatever he wants - if he's not a regular customer, then it's a loss of game.

 

[chicagomike]

Holywood Jack taught me that the rule in this case is - if he's a regular customer you let him do whatever he wants - if he's not a regular customer, then it's a loss of game.

In this case, more of just a social situation...just a chance to test each other's skills... with a $20 incentive for good play.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Beatle,

Do I understand this correctly that the official 1P rules state that any number of balls moved during a game is not a foul, even if you move more than one?

What if you accidentally move 6 balls for example?

Thanks.

Bernie P.

1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

 

[bernie p]

1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

Doc,

Thanks for the clarification.

Which version of the rules are you citing from?

Thanks.

Bernie P.

 

[beatle]

there are a couple versions of the rules. and tournament rules are too strict for cash play as you will only get into an argument so that one side wont pay. they out what basic rules you play by and gamble with people that pay and dont shoot too many angles.