How good is the break?

[vapros]

I have accumulated a pretty good collection of match videos, and it is my impression that there isn't much advantage in the break, at least at that level. I wish I had kept a count as I viewed. The commentators continue to tell us that the break is very big, but often I've seen it broken more times than it holds in a match. I believe the breaker has had a slight edge, but most of that would be the times when a ball is made on the break. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be much difference.

Other comments, please. I'm still viewing my DVDs, and I will start keeping score and report my findings.

 

[androd]

I have accumulated a pretty good collection of match videos, and it is my impression that there isn't much advantage in the break, at least at that level. I wish I had kept a count as I viewed. The commentators continue to tell us that the break is very big, but often I've seen it broken more times than it holds in a match. I believe the breaker has had a slight edge, but most of that would be the times when a ball is made on the break. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be much difference.

Other comments, please. I'm still viewing my DVDs, and I will start keeping score and report my findings.

Sometimes it's nothing and eaisly tuned around, some times it's the whole game. Most times it's somewhere in between. If you give it up and your opponent gets in a groove breaking, it can be brutal.
Rod.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Sometimes it's nothing and easily tuned around, some times it's the whole game. Most times it's somewhere in between.
Rod.

Rod defined it exactly.


- The One Holey Ghost

 

[NH Steve]

I have a whole bunch of tapes too, and a few years ago I actually kept track of some of those stats when I watched them. I kept a little notebook nearby.

The breaker won about 4 times versus 3 for the non-breaker
The break was worth about a ball and a half -- no more than that

One interesting thing was the average winning score, whether the breaker won or the non-breaker won, was pretty similar -- about an 8-3 average final score. To me, that says that in the games the non-breaker won, they turned around the break pretty early and definitively. I really thought the stats would show that when the non-breaker won, the games would be a lot closer, but that isn't what happens apparently.

Of course, these are the top pros, matched up with other top pros.

 

[lll]

i still would take the break if you offer it

 

[vapros]

Steve, there's a familiar phrase; 'ball and a half'. Please tell me how that calculation goes. I can't see it in the stats you have provided. It's been a mystery to me for a long time, used in any pool game. Thanks.

 

[NH Steve]

I did the calcs on my last computer. But in something like 140 games, the breaker won about 80 and the non-breaker about 60. I wrote down the final scores, too. Nothing fancy in the calculations -- just total ball count (whether they won or lost) for the breaker divided by the same for the non-breaker, then multiplied the difference times 8. Somebody correct me if I did that wrong.

I did not look at winning percentage by particular players (when they broke), but I would guess that some players win a higher percentage of the games that they break in than others. And conversely, some players probably get out of the break better than the average. I don't think my sample was big enough for that kind of comparison, even though it did cover about 140 games. The above stats represent the average among these pros, mostly on Accustats, unless I did make mistakes....

Another thing, these guys all scored in bunches. They don't need to "beat you to the shot" very often to get all the way out. That's a big difference between pros and those of us below that level (sometimes a longgg way below ).

 

[lll]

I have accumulated a pretty good collection of match videos, and it is my impression that there isn't much advantage in the break, at least at that level. I wish I had kept a count as I viewed. The commentators continue to tell us that the break is very big, but often I've seen it broken more times than it holds in a match. I believe the breaker has had a slight edge, but most of that would be the times when a ball is made on the break. Other than that, there doesn't seem to be much difference.

Other comments, please. I'm still viewing my DVDs, and I will start keeping score and report my findings.

vapros , let me ask a question . someone you feel you are even with and could get get a big score cause they like to bet and have money would you give them the break to entice them to play????

 

[vapros]

No, III, I would not, for a number of reasons. First of all, in line with my original post, at my level I think the break is more of an edge than it seems to be for the guys on my DVDs, and giving it up to a guy who already plays my speed would make no sense. I can't imagine trying to entice somebody to give me a bad game, tho I know it happens in the scenario you gave.

At the same time, I have to say that I don't do very much gambling, and I know that is a strange attitude to many posters here, many of whom don't really care to play any other way. I love to play one-pocket, but I'm not willing to endure the crap that goes along with making a game for money, and then the demands for adjustment if I win. Gambling is not really a rush for me. If you want me to bet, you first have to make me think I have the best of it, and don't try to make me feel I owe you a chance to catch up unless we make such an agreement in advance.

The last guy tried to make me mad. He said 'you don't have much gamble, do you?' and my response was 'hardly any at all'. If you want to gamble, offer me a bet. I'll take it or I'll leave it, but I won't argue and hassle much about it. That's my attitude, and it's not likely to change, at my age. If I had a guy near my speed who wanted to play twice a week for $10 a game, and who could stand to either win or lose without pitching a tantrum, that would be fine - I can play that way. But I don't have such a guy.

And I doubt that I'm the only one who feels that way. I'm amazed to find that so many people admire a player who is always ready to empty out and bet his rent money. I've been broke too many times and I didn't like it. If possible, I will avoid it in future.

I seem to have hijacked my own thread to make a speech. Sorry 'bout that, and I hope no one takes it personally. Just popping off a little. Gambling is okay, but one-pocket is better.

 

[Skin]

It was a good speech, vapros. I feel the same way now. I bet sociably with a few selected guys who are decent players and behave like gentlemen.

The other types? Well, I am content to listen to them brag, shark, wail, and hustle - and only get passing each other's money around accomplished.

Skin < got's nuthin' to prove anymore

 

[One pocket Smitty]

I agree with Skin , would you give up the break. Not me! That said I think the ending place of the cb has so much to do with being able to get out of a break. I have been trying pg.2 break to get the cb closer to the rack. That takes alot of opitions out of his shot selection. I don't want him to see too much of the head ball or be able to play too much of a safe on the bottom end. If you will ever notice how much easier the game is when you get the cb in the right place.[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4Aagr4BIUR3CCYA4DHgd4ERUg3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IBTT3JFKm4KPOr3LBKO3MDvO4NGgo3OBJl2PQki2kQki3kBRQ3kSSp3kcFO3kbPH3uCMR@4Aagr4BIUR3CCYA4DHgd4ERUg3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IBTT3JFKm4KPOr3LBKO3MDvO4NGgo3OBJl2PQki2kQki3kBaR3kRdo3kKwr4uBvX@[/CUETABLE]

 

[SJDinPHX]

Hold on now....

Hold on now....

Regarding Vapros and Skins posts (#9 & #10) I wonder if they are aware, there is a bill up before the house...that would make it a federal offense, "NOT" to gamble at One Pocket !
The Republicans were trying to get it passed before the holidays...but some other stupid bill the O-man was pushing...took up too much of their time..

The 11th commandment, which some do-gooder's erased, was...."Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors cash, lest ye be gambling at pool, golf or poker"..

 

[blackeee]

I agree with Skin , would you give up the break. Not me! That said I think the ending place of the cb has so much to do with being able to get out of a break. I have been trying pg.2 break to get the cb closer to the rack. That takes alot of opitions out of his shot selection. I don't want him to see too much of the head ball or be able to play too much of a safe on the bottom end. If you will ever notice how much easier the game is when you get the cb in the right place.[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4Aagr4BIUR3CCYA4DHgd4ERUg3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IBTT3JFKm4KPOr3LBKO3MDvO4NGgo3OBJl2PQki2kQki3kBRQ3kSSp3kcFO3kbPH3uCMR@4Aagr4BIUR3CCYA4DHgd4ERUg3FChe4GBjO4HAMA4IBTT3JFKm4KPOr3LBKO3MDvO4NGgo3OBJl2PQki2kQki3kBaR3kRdo3kKwr4uBvX@[/CUETABLE]

Where are you hittin the head ball on break #2 Smitty?

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

vapros , let me ask a question . someone you feel you are even with and could get get a big score cause they like to bet and have money would you give them the break to entice them to play????

lll,

Since the V-man answered your question I'll give my opinion also. If I was dead even with a guy in speed but felt I could win something serious by giving up a little weight, I would give up 9-8 before I ever considered giving up the break.

Dennis

 

[One pocket Smitty]

Same as the first, Blackeee. I just try to use low inside it seems to keep the cb to come off the back rail a little straighter , therefore closer to the rack.---Smitty

 

[One pocket Smitty]

Oh , I see the trouble with my post. There isn't a full rack setup. I try to cut the head ball to the 2nd side diamond.---Smitty

 

[One pocket Smitty]

I agree Dennis. When you spot someone the break you are really hoping that they don't break good all the time.--Smitty

 

[lll]

lll,

Since the V-man answered your question I'll give my opinion also. If I was dead even with a guy in speed but felt I could win something serious by giving up a little weight, I would give up 9-8 before I ever considered giving up the break.

Dennis

me too. even if you are good at getting out of the break and/or his break is not the nuts you always start off defensive and he always starts off with no pressure. forgive me for not remembering who to give credit to for this comment but i do beleive it was mentioned in the past. we all would agree 9-8 is not a lot of weight. most beleive (i think) the break is worth 1 1/2 to 2 balls

 

[senor]

I'll start by adding my thoughts to Duck's post. One pocket is a game that is perfect for gambling. One pocket played at its highest level, like most pool games, has something tangible riding on the outcome. One pocket played for recreation, while it can be good for experimentation, invites laziness and nonchalance rather quickly. These two attributes do not lend themselves to winning when you do find yourself in a money game, no matter what the stakes.

That being said, I agree with much of what the V-man said, also. But vapros, it appears you have pigeon-holed everyone who has and would risk their entire bankroll on a game of skill. The badge doesn't come from someone acting like a lemur and jumping off of a cliff. Every thing we do has definable moments. It turns out in pool, betting your last dollar is a definable moment, among many others. Some people are better at it than others...that's where the admiration comes in.

Furthermore, while we are all pool players, there's a big difference between a pool player and a pool player with other prospects, like yourself. A prospecting pool player is less likely to blow all his money on a pool game because that would leave no money for other things he likes or has to do. A pool player with no other prospects has no fear of going bust.

Rod once told me something about going broke that was funny and true, but more true than anything else, but I'll save that for him if he happens to read this post.

 

[vapros]

Dick, the GOP will never get such a bill passed, as long as the Dems are in charge of what happens in Congress. They have a better idea. Both players should send in the stake money to Washington for processing by the bureaucracy. Then, if any is left Congress will decide how to split it up. The players may, or may not, share in the redistribution.