Howz about some shooting for a change?

[Cowboy Dennis]

It's interesting to see the differing opinion here, but hey....that's what makes the game so great.

For me, this is a no brainer shooting the 9-2-1-6 because the shape from the 9 to the 2 is simply center ball for natural shape on the 2.


Bernie.

Bernie,

Would you consider this an optimum position for the 2 ball?

Dennis

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs4dKSi4ddOp3kIdn4kHhg4kHhi4kRwi@[/CUETABLE]

 

[Dudley]

It's interesting to see the differing opinion here, but hey....that's what makes the game so great.

For me, this is a no brainer shooting the 9-2-1-6 because the shape from the 9 to the 2 is simply center ball for natural shape on the 2.

From there with the 2 to the 1, it is relatively easy to leave an angle for the 1 to the 6 (on either side of the 1), and only if I end up dead straight on the 1 do I have difficulty getting an opportunity for shape on the 6.

Conversely, the shot to go from the 9 to the 6 requires a very accurate hit with a minimum window. Granted if I hit it bad I have my 1 and 2 insurance balls...... but there is also a possibility that I might inadvertently bump the 6 to the side rail while coming from the 9.

Why take the chance?

Bernie.

Bernie,

I completely agree. Why risk getting weird on the 6 ball on the second shot with 2 other balls on the table? I would definitely play the balls 9,2,1,6. Even if you mess up shape from the 1 to the 6 you still have caught up in the game score. (this was the first pattern that jumped out at me)

Dud

IMO this would be an ideal run-
[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs4dKSi4ddOp3kIdn4kHhg4kHhi4kUAR@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IdGy4PTrR4QdGs4VbQR4VcQr4Vdfx4kTrR4kbIA4kbwx4kNXY@4AQtf4BbkB3FPDw4IdGy4PNoY4QdGs4UQtf4Ucpq4kNoY4kPWQ8kHoM8kAnk3kbFa7kXsAzc@[/CUETABLE]

 

[androd]

The table I play on, it would be almost impossible to get from the 2 ball to the 1 ball. Draw is out, follow is very iffy. Probably why nobody comes around and tries to play. On this table I'd shoot the 9-1-6-2 balls.
Rod.

 

[Skin]

The table I play on, it would be almost impossible to get from the 2 ball to the 1 ball. Draw is out, follow is very iffy. Probably why nobody comes around and tries to play. On this table I'd shoot the 9-1-6-2 balls.
Rod.

Hey Rod, did you forget? You've got a WEI table here. You can make it and the balls do anything you want.

Skin

 

[bernie p]

Bernie,

Would you consider this an optimum position for the 2 ball?

Dennis

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs4dKSi4ddOp3kIdn4kHhg4kHhi4kRwi@[/CUETABLE]

Dennis,

Optimum would be approx another foot.... the location of your cueball (as shown) would obviously put me on the less preferred side of the 1, after shooting the 2.......but from there.......I still like the 1 to the 6 angle in terms of percentage success, over the other choice of going from the 9 to the 6 route.

Bernie.

 

[fred bentivegna]

No wonder you deferred!

No wonder you deferred!

Sorry, I put up the wrong goddamned sequence. Its 9,2,1,6. However, everyone should have noted that I agreed with B Stroud and his selection of 9,2,1,6!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
The above reasoning is rock solid. Especially for one pocket. These general guidelines must be applied to each specific layout, they do not apply in this case, at least not in my mind.

1.First, play position on any balls blocking other balls. You need to open up the lanes to shoot the other balls in.There are no balls blocking other balls path to the pocket so this rule is negated.
Of course. Non-applicable in this instance.

2.Second, try to get position on balls that are on the rail.
Why? Very simple answer. YOU CAN ONLY GET ON ONE SIDE OF A BALL FOR POSITION WHEN IT IS ON THE RAIL. (If you get straight in on a ball that is on the rail you can only stop Shooting the 2 ball last negates this rule. (I meant to say shoot the ONE ball last) and hope you have another shot, draw it back and scratch in the pocket, or follow forward and scratch in the pocket you shot the ball in.
To repeat, I didnt mean the 2, I meant leaving the ONE ball for last.

3.Lastly play position for balls out in the open.That leaves the 1 & 6 to shoot next (after the 9). If you miss shapes on the 6 99 times out of 100 you will get a shot at the 1, hence you get a "free" chance to get on the 6 ball. Why? Because unlike the above 2nd reason, if the ball is out in the open, as is the ONE ball here, you can use all 3 sides of the shot to get position.

Plus, in this situation if you choose the 9,2,1 path you are a Hungarian lock to get at least 3 balls and get to the hill and with zero pressure to do it. If you bump funny into the six you might only end up with one.

Beard

Fred,

By my calculations there is a %50 chance that you are serious with your post but there's only a %20 chance of that . On the remote chance that you are serious I've taken the time to explain my thinking here for this layout.

With certain exceptions I usually try to keep as many balls between the cueball and my pocket as is reasonably possible. I like to get "above" or "behind" the furthest balls and work my way in, but all layouts are different and must all be considered anew when they arise.

Here are some of the things that can go wrong if you hit the 6 while trying to get on it. All of them lead to a shot on the 1 ball at least, not a great shot but at least you take a free shot at getting on the 6.

Dennis

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs3aPDw2aagN2aYBm4dKSi4ddGr3kIdn4kHxe4kHAk3kOON3kaIi@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs4dKSi4dcxt3kIdn4kHxf4kHIl3kMax2kPmg@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs3aPDw3aUKL4dKSi4dcxt3kIdn4kHxf4kHYl3kMiq2kapa2kPvn@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDv4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs3aPDv2adhH4dKSi4dchq3kIdn4kHhf4kGrj3kNAG3kMBl3qSdwTHE_POSSIBILITY_OF_THIS_HAPPENING_IS_ALSO_OUT_THERE.&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

 

[fred bentivegna]

You...

You...

It's interesting to see the differing opinion here, but hey....that's what makes the game so great.

For me, this is a no brainer shooting the 9-2-1-6 because the shape from the 9 to the 2 is simply center ball for natural shape on the 2.

From there with the 2 to the 1, it is relatively easy to leave an angle for the 1 to the 6 (on either side of the 1), and only if I end up dead straight on the 1 do I have difficulty getting an opportunity for shape on the 6.

Conversely, the shot to go from the 9 to the 6 requires a very accurate hit with a minimum window. Granted if I hit it bad I have my 1 and 2 insurance balls...... but there is also a possibility that I might inadvertently bump the 6 to the side rail while coming from the 9.

Why take the chance?

Bernie.

...are a very smart man.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

You...

You...

I once heard somebody say "Shoot your easy shots first, that way you don't have no hard shots".

...are a very smart man.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

John,

John,

Thanks Bernie P,only way to play It.haha Sort of a straight pool run.John B.

..you are a very smart man.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Dudley,

Dudley,

Bernie,

I completely agree. Why risk getting weird on the 6 ball on the second shot with 2 other balls on the table? I would definitely play the balls 9,2,1,6. Even if you mess up shape from the 1 to the 6 you still have caught up in the game score. (this was the first pattern that jumped out at me)

Dud

IMO this would be an ideal run-
[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs4dKSi4ddOp3kIdn4kHhg4kHhi4kUAR@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IdGy4PTrR4QdGs4VbQR4VcQr4Vdfx4kTrR4kbIA4kbwx4kNXY@4AQtf4BbkB3FPDw4IdGy4PNoY4QdGs4UQtf4Ucpq4kNoY4kPWQ8kHoM8kAnk3kbFa7kXsAzc@[/CUETABLE]

...You are a very smart man.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Rod,

Rod,

The table I play on, it would be almost impossible to get from the 2 ball to the 1 ball. Draw is out, follow is very iffy. Probably why nobody comes around and tries to play. On this table I'd shoot the 9-1-6-2 balls.
Rod.

...You are (censored)

Beard

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Sorry, I put up the wrong goddamned sequence. Its 9,2,1,6. However, everyone should have noted that I agreed with B Stroud and his selection of 9,2,1,6!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
The above reasoning is rock solid. Especially for one pocket. These general guidelines must be applied to each specific layout, they do not apply in this case, at least not in my mind.

1.First, play position on any balls blocking other balls. You need to open up the lanes to shoot the other balls in.There are no balls blocking other balls path to the pocket so this rule is negated.
Of course. Non-applicable in this instance.

2.Second, try to get position on balls that are on the rail.
Why? Very simple answer. YOU CAN ONLY GET ON ONE SIDE OF A BALL FOR POSITION WHEN IT IS ON THE RAIL. (If you get straight in on a ball that is on the rail you can only stop Shooting the 2 ball last negates this rule. (I meant to say shoot the ONE ball last) and hope you have another shot, draw it back and scratch in the pocket, or follow forward and scratch in the pocket you shot the ball in.
To repeat, I didnt mean the 2, I meant leaving the ONE ball for last. Last before the 6 I presume

3.Lastly play position for balls out in the open.That leaves the 1 & 6 to shoot next (after the 9). If you miss shapes on the 6 99 times out of 100 you will get a shot at the 1, hence you get a "free" chance to get on the 6 ball. Why? Because unlike the above 2nd reason, if the ball is out in the open, as is the ONE ball here, you can use all 3 sides of the shot to get position.

Plus, in this situation if you choose the 9,2,1 path you are a Hungarian lock to get at least 3 balls and get to the hill and with zero pressure to do it. If you bump funny into the six you might only end up with one.

Beard

Freddie,

Actually I never looked at your order of shooting beyond the second ball. I would ask everybody out there that would shoot the 6 last one question though: If you shoot the 9, 2, 1 and then fail to get on the 6 would you feel like a damn fool for passing up the FREE opportunity to have done so on your first shot?

Dennis

 

[Skin]

Freddie,

I would ask everybody out there that would shoot the 6 last one question though: If you shoot the 9, 2, 1 and then fail to get on the 6 would you feel like a damn fool for passing up the FREE opportunity to have done so on your first shot?

Dennis

If I was going to shoot the 6 last, I would! That's why I went to the 6 next after the 9. Plus, it is a perfect opportunity to get there and when you do, you've cinched the run.

"When you have to shoot, shoot."

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez Skin

 

[SJDinPHX]

Freddie,

Actually I never looked at your order of shooting beyond the second ball. I would ask everybody out there that would shoot the 6 last one question though: If you shoot the 9, 2, 1 and then fail to get on the 6 would you feel like a damn fool for passing up the FREE opportunity to have done so on your first shot?

Dennis

What he said !!!

 

[12squared]

First of all you would have to shoot the 1 ball stretched out over the table to reach it. Second, if you hit the bottom of the 6 with the cueball after you shoot the 1 ball your inning will be over. That's why getting on the 6 at the first opportunity is important, if you attempt it and fail you still have the 1 to shoot. Keeping balls between the cueball & pocket is always a good strategy.

[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4AQtf4BbQR3FPDw4IKSi3PIdn4QdGs3kIdn4kHxh4kPdE4kPnP4kDQm3kYaO3kQqk4kWFP8kbQCzc@[/CUETABLE]

Dennis

Dennis,

Thanks for your reply and your thoughts on my choices. Here's my thoughts-not right or wrong, just me thinking (which is always flawed):

1) I would think there is a better chance of hitting the bottom of the 6 ball when choosing to play shape off the 9 instead of the 1, it appears to be much harder to control the cueball. Yes, you still have the 1 ball as a safety ball but the position of the 6 would change and you would not be sure where. That could be trouble.

2) That dang WEI table, of course I would play the cueball up towards the middle of the table and not have to stretch, I just wanted to show the angle. This is much easier to achieve off the 9 and totally natural - you would have the 2 ball as a safety ball in case you run a little too far to the rail (almost guaranteeing an angle to continue).

3) The position from the 1 to the 6 allows for a natural angle for shape and if you get anywhere but dead straight on the rail, you can easily get shape on the 2 ball - dead straight not on the rail is an easy draw shot. If I would end up dead straight I wouldn't hesitate to softly roll in the 6 and double bank the 2 for a possible out or a safe, or take a cut if I was feeling better than I should.

So that was my thinking, I like to use natural angles. I do agree with what others have said they would do, if I didn't shoot as I described, I would try for the 6 1st after the 9, but it looks like too much work for me. I'm old and lazy .

Dave

 

[John Brumback]

..you are a very smart man.

Beard

Thanks,the way I see It,going from the 1 ball to the 6 ball would be the most natural pathway to get the 6.That's the part about straight pool that can help alot with your onepocket.Seeing the right patterns and right routes to take.
I do have a high run of 168. Got to know the patterns,kids haha.Only played the game for two weeks.John crowing B.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis,

Thanks for your reply and your thoughts on my choices. Here's my thoughts-not right or wrong, just me thinking (which is always flawed):


Dave

Dave,

I don't think there's a right/wrong choice here, just a personal preference. In my mind it comes down to this: Get on the 6 after the 9 and you're automatically out. If you fail to get on the 6 you should almost always have a shot at the 1. Then you'll get a second chance to get on the 6.

That must be weighed against shooting the 1 last before the 6. It's true enough that you can make the 9, 2, 1 and then attempt to get on the 6. This will put you on the hill and there's nothing wrong with that but if you fail to get on the 6, which is a definite possibility, then you will be playing safe.

The choice, as always, is take a little more risk and be rewarded if it works out or play safer and take the sure three balls and hope to get on the 6 off the 1.

Calculating these odds & possibilities is what poolplayers do on almost every shot they ever shoot. For me, I'd rather take the free chance to get on the 6 from the 9 ball than risk not getting on it later off the 1 ball. If I fail twice to get on the 6 then I gave it my best shot and take the consequences. That I can live with.

Dennis

 

[fred bentivegna]

Another axiom

Another axiom

Freddie,

Actually I never looked at your order of shooting beyond the second ball. I would ask everybody out there that would shoot the 6 last one question though: If you shoot the 9, 2, 1 and then fail to get on the 6 would you feel like a damn fool for passing up the FREE opportunity to have done so on your first shot?

Dennis

There is another ball running axiom that could be considered here.
1. Whenever reasonable and possible, get to the top of the balls. Which in this case would be the 6 ball. However, the key word is reasonable. IF the six ball was about another six inches away from that opposite long rail, that rationale would easily apply. The shot as it stands to get behind the 6 ball, is not a dead lock cinch, so therefore as any EAST COASTER would argue, why take any chances at all where you might lose control of the run.
Let us not forget, even if you dont get position on the 6 ball last in the run -- which is unlikely -- you still remain in control of the run. If you screw up in any of those 4 bad scenarios that C Dennis diagrammed, you have a chance to either lose the move or lose your chance to keep shooting.

Beard

Incidentally, I dont know if anybody else is taking advantage of these little tidbits (axioms) that have been dropped here, but let me say this. I file all this stuff and you will see it again in a book or DVD that other people will pay to read or see.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

There is another ball running axiom that could be considered here.
1. Whenever reasonable and possible, get to the top of the balls. Which in this case would be the 6 ball. However, the key word is reasonable. IF the six ball was about another six inches away from that opposite long rail, that rationale would easily apply. The shot as it stands to get behind the 6 ball, is not a dead lock cinch, so therefore as any EAST COASTER would argue, why take any chances at all to lose control of the run.
Let us not forget, even if you dont get position on the 6 ball last in the run -- which is unlikely -- you still remain in control of the run. If you screw up in any of those 4 bad scenarios that C Dennis diagrammed, you have a chance to either lose the move or lose your chance to keep shooting.

Beard

Incidentally, I dont know if anybody else is taking advantage of these little tidbits (axioms) that have been dropped here, but let me say this. I file all this stuff and you will see it again in a book or DVD that other people will pay to read or see.

Freddie,

Everything you wrote is %100 correct. The 6 ain't no hanger to get on, early or late. I would just rather have two shots at it than one, that's all.

Dennis

 

[Ken_4fun]

Well I am sure I am doing it wrong but I would play;

9-6-2-1.

Here is why for me. IF I get bad on the 6 I have the 2 or the 1 to shoot and still have a change to get on 6.

To me, the 6 is the key ball, hardest to get, so doing it this way I have (3) balls that allow me an opportunity to get on it.

If I shoot the 2 second, then I have less opportunities to get on it.

I am not the skill level youse guys are on position play.

Ken